How To Change a Dance

post by jefftk (jkaufman) · 2019-11-30T13:40:01.625Z · LW · GW · 7 comments

Let's say you don't like something about your local dance. Perhaps you'd like to see gender free calling, a different approach to booking bands, a new kind of special event, or something else. How can you make this happen?

The best case is that you talk to the organizers, they say "what a great idea!" and handle the rest, but it rarely works this way. [1] Maybe the organizers have a different background and don't understand why you think your ideas would be an improvement. Maybe your ideas would be more work, at least at first, and they're feeling overworked with what they're doing already. Maybe the ideas take longer to explain than you can get in during conversations at the break. When this works, it's the least difficult, but for anything tricky it seems to me like it usually doesn't.

Here are three things, however, that I have seen work well:

Which of these approaches makes the best sense for you in your particular situation will vary, but volunteering to help out with the dance is often a good place to start.


[1] I'm writing this as general advice, and I'm not trying to say "don't talk to me about BIDA". If you have thoughts about BIDA please let me know, and I'd be happy to talk to you about how the dance can be better.

Comment via: facebook

7 comments

Comments sorted by top scores.

comment by Matt Goldenberg (mr-hire) · 2019-11-30T13:56:37.068Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

The secret of this post is that it's not about dance at all.

comment by Stuart Anderson (stuart-anderson) · 2019-11-30T18:22:47.129Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

-

Replies from: Zack_M_Davis
comment by Zack_M_Davis · 2019-11-30T18:48:33.894Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

How do you distinguish between entryism and other forms of in-group politicking? I thought "entryism" is when actors who don't already have a stake in a group, seek to join the group and gain power in it, in order to "turn" it for their agenda (which is unrelated to the purpose of the group). But I read the OP as talking about existing members of the group pursuing an agenda that's genuinely relevant to the purpose of the group.

Unsurprisingly, there may be a Sorites problem here—if you were already a casual member of the dancing club, and suddenly decide to become more involved because of your interest in Society-wide bathroom convention reform, that's a lot like entryism even if it's not the "pure" case.

Replies from: mr-hire, stuart-anderson
comment by Matt Goldenberg (mr-hire) · 2019-12-01T00:21:43.946Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Yeah, it feels hard to distinguish "bringing in more interested members" from "bringing in more interested members that agree with you."

comment by Stuart Anderson (stuart-anderson) · 2019-12-02T11:42:34.619Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

-

Replies from: jkaufman
comment by jefftk (jkaufman) · 2019-12-02T12:00:55.793Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

they had a popular vote go against them

I wrote "If you had a vote you'd probably be in the minority". To take this specific example, we publicly planned a vote, saw that this was overwhelmingly preferred, and decided to switch. But if we had had the vote five years earlier I think we probably would have had different results.

Everyone I can think of who is pushing for the examples I gave in the post was a dancer before they started having that belief. Contra dance is far too niche for it to be worth anyone's while to try to come in from outside as a non-dancer and change it to be more the way they want.

Replies from: stuart-anderson