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comment by Dahlen · 2015-02-11T21:18:06.548Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

That's one style of writing, yes. It's not the goddamn gospel, though. It just happens to be the kind of writing that gets regarded as contemporary. Hint hint, nudge nudge. The subject matter doesn't warrant the confidence in the tone.

Also, maybe it's just me and my biased sampling of wordplay humour, but I've seen this trick (exemplifying the rule, or the violation thereof, in the paragraph that contains the rule) used so many times, that by the time I managed a closer reading of the text I was already on the lookout for it.

comment by 27chaos · 2015-02-11T21:10:09.582Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

While I agree with much of this, I dislike how we're getting tips about random fields on this site now.

Replies from: polymathwannabe
comment by polymathwannabe · 2015-02-12T00:40:52.798Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

At least it should be moved to Discussion.

comment by [deleted] · 2015-02-11T21:02:41.366Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

I agree wholeheartedly with most of these guidelines, at least when writing something you want people to digest easily. My advisor gave me much the same advice for writing papers.

However, I would have to disagree about developing an allergy to the passive voice. If you are writing a paper on flowers, there are situations where it may be more appropriate to say "flowers are pollinated by bees" than to say "bees pollinate flowers". Bees may be the subject of that sentence, but they are not the subject of your paper.

comment by Squark · 2015-02-11T21:11:07.046Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

The subject of the sentence is a woman. It comes first. Be chivalrous.

This makes your post sound as if it's addressed only to men, which IMO is unseemly. Otherwise, nice post.

Replies from: William_Quixote, None, b1shop
comment by William_Quixote · 2015-02-11T22:07:50.217Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

I second this opinion. Surveys indicate LW is about 10% women, so its undoubtedly worth changing this sentence to speak to more of the sites population.

comment by [deleted] · 2015-02-12T06:56:25.509Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

I would be happy if anyone explains the reasoning for this.

EDIT: I meant the part Squark quoted.

Replies from: polymathwannabe
comment by polymathwannabe · 2015-02-12T15:13:18.278Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

It's advice that only makes sense for straight men, which implies that the text overall is addressed only at straight men instead of at a general audience.

comment by b1shop · 2015-02-11T23:31:45.167Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

In my experience, women enjoy the idea of coming first.

Replies from: Squark
comment by Squark · 2015-02-12T17:20:30.497Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

b1shop, you missed my point. I wasn't responding to the merit of the idea that women come first. I was responding to the sentence "be chivalrous" which suggests the reader is a man since it is the man who is apparently supposed to be chivalrous.

comment by katydee · 2015-02-12T05:13:17.872Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

This post seems more suited for the Discussion section (insofar as it is suitable for LW at all).

comment by Nanashi · 2015-02-11T23:21:58.563Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Just gonna throw a suggestion out there:

Be genuine with your tone. If it doesn't sound like something you'd actually say out loud, don't say it. Or at least come up with a different way to say it that's not all BS-y.

People aren't stupid, they know when you're being phony even they don't realize they know it. For example the OP kinda comes across a little affected, which is why I think people are down voting it. (I didn't, by the way). Someone said that the confident tone doesn't match the subject matter, and I agree with that 100%

Replies from: b1shop
comment by b1shop · 2015-02-11T23:30:18.605Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

It's a style guide. It's supposed to be ruthlessly dictatorial. I wrote it for myself and co-workers. Some local Less Wrongers enjoyed it and encouraged me to post, so I did. I thought it would be appreciated. Oh well.

Replies from: Nanashi
comment by Nanashi · 2015-02-12T11:38:46.050Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Don't get me wrong, I think most of what you suggested was actually pretty useful. That's why I was a bit surprised that your post got down voted so quickly and heavily. Once I read through it again, that's when I noticed the tone came across weird.

PS. I wouldn't get discouraged by people who are pointing out all these edge cases where your suggestions are wrong. If a "guide" is helpful, say, 80% of the time, I think that's a pretty good start.

comment by Kindly · 2015-02-12T03:47:21.304Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Actually, remove every word you can. You can live without them.

Let me try to argue for the opposite: keep as many words as you can. I have found the strategy of keeping words superior when writing exposition on a dense topic. (Obviously, writing advice will vary depending on the reason you're writing.)

When speaking, you have reason to be concise: you're trying to get across your point with as little as possible getting in the way. If you speak a long phrase when a short one will do, you risk that your audience will forget what you started out saying by the time you finish.

When writing, your goal is to be clear, not to save on ink. Whenever you use abbreviations or shorthand or imprecise descriptions, you are saving time for yourself, not for your reader. In the unlikely case that you are writing too much, your reader will be able to skip whatever is redundant.

For example:

  • "Never write the object of a sentence first, then the verb, and last the subject. Use the opposite order instead." This version is bad; your reader must expend mental energy to unpack your instruction.

  • "Never write the object of a sentence first, then the verb, and last the subject. Instead, write the subject first, then the verb, and last the object." This version is better. You've explicitly spelled out what your instruction is.

  • "Never write the object of a sentence first, then the verb, and last the subject. Instead, use the opposite order: write the subject first, then the verb, and last the object." This version is even better: you've provided both the end result, and how you obtained it. If you have made a mistake, your reader will be able to catch it.

Alarm bells should go off whenever you catch yourself writing "We will only consider the first case; the others are similar." If the reader is sophisticated enough to be able to extrapolate from the first case, the reader will extrapolate anyway. To help the reader extrapolate, you should certainly say "All these cases are handled similarly." You should then proceed to consider every single case anyway!

A reader who sees the pattern can use the pattern to skip redundant steps in your argument. A reader who does not see the pattern, or is nsure about the pattern, can read the redundant steps anyway. You should not take away this option.

Replies from: Nanashi
comment by Nanashi · 2015-02-12T12:07:13.819Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Let me try to argue for the opposite: keep as many words as you can. I have found the strategy of keeping words superior when writing exposition on a dense topic.

This realllllllllly depends on your goal. If it's persuasion (e.g. a recommendation, a proposal, a bid, an argument), then it would be a good idea to remember that brevity implies confidence, and confidence is persuasive. Also, the more incidental points you make, the more likely it is your audience will get hung up on one of those points instead of what you're actually talking about.

comment by AngryParsley · 2015-02-11T21:40:45.554Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

If you want to improve your writing, I strongly recommend The Sense of Style, by Steven Pinker. He explains why certain guidelines usually make text clearer, shows how they can fail, then gives the underlying mechanisms for why. It's a much more scientific look at language than the usual, "Trust my advice because I'm good at writing. Do this. Don't do this. Except sometimes, do."

comment by polymathwannabe · 2015-02-12T00:39:39.823Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Write like a freight train.

What does that mean?

Develop an allergy to passive sentences.

That's bovine feces. Each sentence demands its own way of being written.

Start and end every paragraph with the most important sentences. They’re the only parts skimmers will read.

a) Each subject will demand its own structure, and the most important idea can very well be located anywhere in the paragraph. b) Good writing aims to engage, to absorb, to become unskimmable. If you are being skimmed, you're not doing it right.

Write quickly.

Not necessarily. Each writer must find the rhythm that works for h**self.

I trained myself to believe the first draft doesn't matter.

Some writers write a draft of the entire story. Moi, I draft sentence by sentence. Again, each writer must find the style that fits h** goals and sensibilities.

Changing the formatting can help you freshly focus. Try printing your pieces or dramatically changing the font size.

This is actually good advice.

Quick readers can get bored. [...] Make them work, but not too hard.

As long as what you write makes sense, I don't care if you force me to unravel a perfectly grammatical yet labyrinthic sentence that spans sixteen pages. In fact, I may enjoy it more because of that.

When in doubt, ask: What would Ernest Hemingway do?

Insert your preferred writer in that sentence. Not everyone must like the books you like.

Replies from: Nanashi, AshwinV
comment by Nanashi · 2015-02-12T11:49:59.000Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Your post is more correct than the OP. But it's also less helpful. You point out that there are exceptions to pretty much all of the OP's suggestions, which is totally true. But it would be useful if you pointed out examples of what some of those exceptions actually are.

comment by AshwinV · 2015-02-12T04:00:58.410Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

That's bovine feces. Each sentence demands its own way of being written.

Not according to Stephen King

Replies from: 27chaos
comment by 27chaos · 2015-02-12T05:49:00.976Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Can you elaborate?

Replies from: AshwinV
comment by AshwinV · 2015-02-12T11:45:43.266Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Stephen King in his book "On Writing - A memoir of the craft" states that he prefers it when people avoid the passive form of writing.

He also further goes on to "speculate" that people like the passive voice for the same reason that people like to be passive lovers.