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comment by Dagon · 2021-04-22T23:01:58.878Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

I don't get it.  

Alice wants to go on a date with Bob. Bob wants her to prove to him that she's vaccinated.

Alice gets offended that Bob doesn't trust her, and no longer wants to go on that date.  Or if she's actually invested, she offers to show the CDC card or health portal screenshot or some other low-effort indicator.   Most likely outcome: Bob is lonely, Alice finds other dates.

In no case will there be an equilibrium where significant numbers of people ask for or perform the craziness you describe.

It's a difficult process. This is important

Important also because it limits who can demand it.  It's almost certainly going to be measurably discriminatory against protected groups, which makes it a non-starter to ask for such a thing for any public or regulated commercial purpose.

Replies from: gabriel-holmes
comment by tkpwaeub (gabriel-holmes) · 2021-04-23T00:37:24.774Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Obviously, this is a theoretical set up! Bob can be replaced by an organization, for instance.

Replies from: Dagon
comment by Dagon · 2021-04-23T02:17:10.878Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Well, no.  Most organizations would be sued to oblivion if they demanded this information.  

Replies from: gabriel-holmes
comment by tkpwaeub (gabriel-holmes) · 2021-04-23T09:01:13.191Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

My thinking as that this would be a service offered by organizations, not something demanded by organizations.

Replies from: Dagon
comment by Dagon · 2021-04-23T14:52:28.145Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

My point is that there is no demand for this service.  Very few organizations can deny service to people who don't choose to waive their medical privacy rights (and those who can have already solved the permission and data-access problems).  Individuals and under-the-radar organizations will be ignored (or arrested) if they demand it.

The whole idea is kind of dumb IMO, but regardless of that, it's something that can only be implemented by governments, as they control both the supply (trusted credentials) and the demand (the ability to require it to receive benefits/entry/services).

Replies from: gabriel-holmes
comment by tkpwaeub (gabriel-holmes) · 2021-04-23T16:01:39.011Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

See, my point is that it absolutely doesn't need to be implemented from the top down. It can be done "peer to peer", or "peer to organization". There's simply no need to create governmental infrastructure that already exists, and the Biden administration was wise to punt the issue.

comment by Donald Hobson (donald-hobson) · 2021-04-24T17:38:12.072Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Assuming both people have a normal dislike of bureaucracy, the equilibrium will likely be pure trust, or a selfie. Possibly of them actually getting the vaccine, or whatever paperwork they are given once vaccinated. Anyone so untrustworthy that you suspect they might have gone to significant effort to fake being vaccinated is not someone you want to socialize with anyway.

Replies from: gabriel-holmes
comment by tkpwaeub (gabriel-holmes) · 2021-04-25T17:44:52.069Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

I think that's a fair prediction.

comment by Measure · 2021-04-22T18:49:08.232Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

1a. Because it's a difficult process, it can't be assumed that everyone who is vaccinated will be able to provide such proof. This makes it difficult/expensive to require proof from large numbers of people.

Replies from: gabriel-holmes
comment by tkpwaeub (gabriel-holmes) · 2021-04-22T19:28:50.067Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Right. My hope is that this is where legal aid societies and civil liberties organizations might find common cause with this approach, and offer their assistance. The point is that these are federally guaranteed rights that states can't actually take away (thanks to the 14th Amendment).

I'm going to talk about how this might "bootstrap" in a subsequent blog.

comment by cistran · 2021-04-23T17:56:47.509Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

If Alice also want to date Carl, David, etc, does she have to do it again and again every time? Wouldn't it be easier to do it once and put in into a blockchain?

comment by TheSimplestExplanation · 2021-04-23T11:02:53.840Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Ha, so we can implement immunity passports!

But how many people are actually interested in privacy preserving immunity passports?

Replies from: gabriel-holmes
comment by tkpwaeub (gabriel-holmes) · 2021-04-23T16:02:46.115Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

I would hope that everyone who wants them to work without creating civil unrest would want them to be privacy preserving.

comment by tkpwaeub (gabriel-holmes) · 2021-04-23T08:59:33.837Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

I should emphasize that I'm not by any means suggesting that the above behavior should be normative. I'm merely saying that the governmental tools for one person to prove to another person or entity that they're vaccinated already exist.