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Comment by Giriath on Luminosity (Twilight Fanfic) Discussion Thread 3 · 2011-04-01T06:24:19.339Z · LW · GW

So Adelaide was always that disturbing.

Comment by Giriath on Luminosity (Twilight Fanfic) Discussion Thread 3 · 2011-03-24T07:07:10.309Z · LW · GW

Sure, if there were any such vampires, which I kind of doubt considering my previous point and also because that's probably the kind of thing the Volturi would notice and not appreciate.

Comment by Giriath on Luminosity (Twilight Fanfic) Discussion Thread 3 · 2011-03-24T05:19:26.076Z · LW · GW

Couldn't this simply be resolved by false identities? I don't think there have been a lot of vampires with academic ambitions in the Twilight verse because of the relatively uncivilized state their previous diet put them in; most were nomads prior to the new regime. The Golden Empire has many resources to create as many false identities as they want for any vampires who gets interested in academics with the new diet change.

I also don't think it will take more than a human life time for the new regime to start directly influencing the human societies, or even publicly reveal themselves to all.

Comment by Giriath on Luminosity (Twilight Fanfic) Discussion Thread 3 · 2011-03-01T10:09:29.845Z · LW · GW

Uh, well I had made a few suggestions a ways back but I can't remember all of them and as it's my birthday I don't currently have the time to search for them amongst all my comments and private messages.

Here's a few though: tell us about when Bella met Allirea and Eleazar and managed to steal Allirea away and their subsequent journey up until they met with Elspeth and party again.

Tell us about how Bella reacts to Elspeth having been Chelsea'd, and if that is insufficient as an omake, what she is doing and thinking when and after Elspeth is abducted twice, and anything else you'd like to add pertaining to that time frame (e.g. Bella almost attacking Pera).

Tell us about the first major contact between the Golden Empire and human governments, and any subsequent contact you find interesting.

Tell us about the first direct public contact (televised or otherwise) between human society and the Golden Empire, preferably from the perspective of Bella's past human acquaintances, like Angela, Mike, Ben, Jessica, Lauren e.t.c.

Tell us about the first official function Elspeth attends. Will she wear a crown? Will Jacob really get a title?

Tell us about Allirea's experiences as personal bodyguard of the imperial family.

That's all I have for now. :)

Comment by Giriath on Luminosity (Twilight Fanfic) Discussion Thread 3 · 2011-02-28T14:17:47.626Z · LW · GW

You mix up Grace and Gwyn in the scene in Jane's room. It should be Grace following Elspeth, but halfway through you start writing Gwyn and continue doing that throughout the chapter. Good chapter!

Comment by Giriath on Luminosity (Twilight Fanfic) Discussion Thread 3 · 2011-02-19T10:26:53.064Z · LW · GW

Ch. 45 spoilers!

Huh, so that's it for the Volturi. I wonder what the conflict will be from here on out. There's bound to be some vampires who won't be pleased with the new diet rules, and I'm also wondering what Bella will do with regards to humanity; will she let them in on the secret, or try to influence them without doing that?

I'd also like to see what she does with her parents. Renée and Phil may be interested in vampirization. And what will the wolves do? I hope Alicorn doesn't cap it off soon, even if there's no immediate threat to the current reign and the Cullen's.

Comment by Giriath on Luminosity (Twilight Fanfic) Discussion Thread 3 · 2011-02-17T08:25:09.622Z · LW · GW

Chapter 44 spoilers!

Wow...that didn't go anything like I had expected. Adelaide will have to have one hell of a trump card or suddenly have fallen in like with Bella's ambitions (and I doubt those include her holding Elspeth hostage) to have some hope of getting out of this.

Maybe she does have someone powerful enough to make a difference working for her in the insurgency, like I speculated in my last comment, or some immense leverage over the entire group. Whatever it is, it will have to be big to ensure they won't become a threat to her later on.

Comment by Giriath on Luminosity (Twilight Fanfic) Discussion Thread 3 · 2011-02-16T13:45:04.947Z · LW · GW

There is a character page here.

Comment by Giriath on Luminosity (Twilight Fanfic) Discussion Thread 3 · 2011-02-15T10:19:15.132Z · LW · GW

Somehow I don't think things will go quite as planned. Infilitrate, break Volturi members; decide who lives, who dies and who rules the world. That sounds too easy, and I doubt Adelaide will make her move after the vampires who don't particularly like her research have assumed a stable reign of the world.

Maybe she has someone working for her on the inside. There have been remarkably few protests about Bella running for Queen of the World, despite her ambitious future plans regarding vampire conduct. I'm quite sure no one has thought to have Maggie ask everyone in the insurgency whether they've ever had contact with Adelaide, and if they have, what relation they have and how that may affect the plan.

I suppose she has been listening in on most conversations and could point out any lies, but she herself may be suspect. IIRC, Gianna is still guarding Molly, who may be taken hostage should Adelaide gather some friends. Then we would have no way of knowing who is working for her, as Maggie would cover their lies.

We learned this chapter (43) that all wolves and puppies are present (as far as Elspeth remembers), so we can safely assume Adelaide is in the presence of one or more of Allirea's siblings or her children. If she has one or more of Allirea's children as a hostage, it may of course upset the plan. She knows of them, and also that Allirea is a big threat, so why wouldn't she try to get some leverage on her? She may not be able to plan around her fading though.

Comment by Giriath on Luminosity (Twilight Fanfic) Discussion Thread 3 · 2011-02-12T06:48:34.163Z · LW · GW

Chapter 42 spoilers.

So, we're finally getting close to the actual battle. Their current plan seems sound, but I really wonder what Adelaide is doing that might derail it, or what the Volturi themselves have done to counteract any attack; they're not stupid, as Siobhan said.

It would seem that Pera remembers enough of Bella to be quite irrationally afraid of her. :)

It's amusing to see Siobhan become more and more exasperated with being the leader of this operation. I'm beginning to understand why she doesn't want to be "Queen of the World", even though she's very qualified for the position. She has little ambition beyond being the chief vampire of Ireland, and quickly becomes bored with the people around her, when in a leadership position.

Comment by Giriath on Luminosity (Twilight Fanfic) Discussion Thread 3 · 2011-02-09T16:35:08.573Z · LW · GW

All that Bella-for-Queen! talk in the latest chapters again made me wonder how the state of vampire society and its influence on human society will be handled after the inevitable fall of Volturi rule. I don't think Bella as she is now is most equipped to realize any ambitions, be it on the planning stage or in practice. She is perhaps most ambitious though, although I would argue how healthy they are, for both vampire and human society.

I think it would be very interesting if Alicorn didn't stop with the fall of the Volturi and instead continued with the story until Bella's ambitions are realized, or the societies of Earth are relatively stable (and human society is currently doing a good job at eliminating life on the planet...).

Vampires are far from eternal, and have a lot of self-interest in the survival of humanity, even if they can permanently survive on the blood of other creatures. A certain amount of population of either humans or vampires is needed to achieve goals such as harnessing solar energy to create matter, or interstellar travel. Both or either of which will be necessary to avoid extinction when the Sun dies, and to have access to more resources than the Earth can provide.

If the Big Bang is a pulsating phenomena, I wonder if it's possible to alter it or outright stop its cycle. I imagine such a task would require massive amounts of resources applied by incredible technology, and would probably be the result of much of the universe's sentient beings' cooperation. Humanity is very primitive in that we do not apply scientific thinking (which has proved to produce results) to adapting in the most healthy way to a constantly changing environment.

I doubt we would claim ownership over anything other than our bodies if we did; instead cooperatively striving to understand ourselves and the environment so that we can best use it to be healthy, and ensure our race's survival by reaching out into the stars.

One another note, the reactions of all Bella's past acquaintances when she makes her come-back as Vampire Queen of The World ought to be amusing.

Comment by Giriath on Luminosity (Twilight Fanfic) Discussion Thread 3 · 2011-02-03T06:01:00.036Z · LW · GW

(Chapter 38 SPOILERS below)

Ah, was that a small moment of affection for her mother Elspeth had at the end there? It would be great if Elspeth came to enjoy her mother's presence in different ways then she did before Chelsea robbed her of all relation she felt with her.

I don't think it's particularly healthy to feel very dependent on another person, so I think it would be a good thing if she developed independence and confidence in herself, and affection for those she believes deserves it.

That would probably be more difficult to do had her subconscious dispositions towards her mother not been erased; and nearly impossible to completely alter. Chelsea could definitely use her witchcraft to make people happier and healthier. Only first you'd have to research what makes people--both in general and in specific individuals--happier and healthier.

If the deprogramming of Chelsea's witchcraft causes different behavorial reactions in its subjects, based on whatever original intent and emotion it has repressed and how relevant that is to the present, then the wolves will most likely be more willing to completely exterminate the Volturi than anyone else.

Under the influence of Chelsea, they have done and have things done to them that they by their original beliefs and behavior would consider extremely horrible, all of which will be very relevant to the present if Siobhan's plan is carried out as discussed in chapter 38.

Forget stopping them from sounding any alarms or restraining Elspeth; the real problem may be stopping all their howling and any crazed attempts to race into the compound. I knew stacking all that unwilling manpower would eventually quite literally bite the Volturi in the ass.

Comment by Giriath on Luminosity (Twilight Fanfic) Discussion Thread 3 · 2011-01-29T12:16:34.863Z · LW · GW

Spoilers chapter 36!

Seeing all those future possibilities was very interesting. And all that just by deciding to do something, even if there was an uncommonly high amount of possibilities resulting from this particular decision. I wonder if they'll tell Genevieve anything more, now that they've already established contact and what seems to be an alliance with Alice and Jasper.

If Alice and Jasper ever meet with Bella again, and I assume they will, that would make for a very interesting reunion to read from their own perspectives.

Comment by Giriath on Luminosity (Twilight Fanfic) Discussion Thread 3 · 2011-01-26T22:20:02.755Z · LW · GW

Wow, what a cliffhanger! And I was listening to Daft Punk's TRON Legacy soundtrack when I read the chapter. Brushing your teeth is dramatic when listening to that score.

I though of many potential plots for future outtakes in this chapter, here's one: How did the Cullen's react when Elspeth 'disappeared', did they look for her long? Is there any tension between some of them now that they know Bella took her, and how did their reunion work, from their own perspectives?

I'm most interested in Rosalie, who displayed canonical possessiveness of Elspeth at the end of Luminosity, when it became apparent that she may become parentless.

Comment by Giriath on Luminosity (Twilight Fanfic) Discussion Thread 3 · 2011-01-22T21:26:07.965Z · LW · GW

Wow. I really got a better feel of how massive the attack on La Push was when I read the character listings of the wolves, imprints and puppies. I also didn't know or remember that Victor and Maureen's daughter Natalie Hanley died in the NYC capture.

I really like that there are stories like these where the Volturi's actions are actually representative of their character. Meyer set them up as extremely powerful and bent on world domination, but only made them act when it was convenient to her love story. Unfortunately much of the canon-fanfiction follows in this vein. You can't have such a powerful, experienced and greedy entity like the Volturi in a story and not have an all-out war; it's just not consistent with their character.

Comment by Giriath on Luminosity (Twilight Fanfic) Discussion Thread 3 · 2011-01-15T07:22:10.223Z · LW · GW

So it looks as if Demetri is finally going to kick the bucket over the next few chapters? I hope they manage to kill him before he can contact Volterra with the news that there are a whole lot of more vampires in Denali than the traitors have reported.

This chapter further solidified my infatuation with Allirea. I'm not really sure why I like her so much--probably because I associate her with most of the sparse humorous moments in the series. I believe the killing of lifeforms can often be selective, and think that the more sentient should especially not be killed. Therefore I don't approve of Allirea killing humans when she has many options to survive without doing so. But I also believe we are our consciousness and personality, and that that is shaped by the experiences our environment gives us. I don't believe in punishment as a way to make things "better". I think people can change to be happier and healthier (which is my definition of "good" and "right") and to want that for other people, too, but punishing them for how their environment has shaped them is not the way to do that. I think you do that by exposing them to the beliefs you want them to endorse, and encourage them to inform themselves about it.

Still, I'm not naïve enough to think that everyone will be willing to commit to that change, or that there will always be an opportunity to introduce it. If someone is trying to hurt or even kill me and I've exhausted every other option, I'd probably hurt or kill them back. Maybe I won't even have time to think about my options, or I do but I don't because I'm not infallible to fear or greed and other emotions that may make me think and act differently than I otherwise would, once faced with an unusual situation.

In the case of Demetri arriving in the recent chapter, I'd probably approve of killing him. He would be a huge risk to extremely many lives in so many ways should they incapacitate him and try to help him change his ways.

Comment by Giriath on Luminosity (Twilight Fanfic) Discussion Thread 3 · 2011-01-13T00:03:01.022Z · LW · GW

I've been thinking about something for the past few days. One of Bella's ambitions in Luminosity was to reveal the existence of vampires to humankind and offer their version of immortality as a way of preserving life. I would argue that our planet Earth has a limited amount of resources and though vampires require less nutritional intake than humans, it can only support so many before there's a limited amount of species of which to feed from. This holds true even if they feed without killing; Earth is a limited space, even if its lifeforms manage to occupy nearly every crevice and still maintain the necessary resources for survival.

Of course, if humanity--especially turned vampire with the inherent thought-capacity boost--universally put their minds to colonizing other planets and galaxies in a search for resources, then perhaps we will succeed and ensure our species survival for a very long time.

Another possible problem that may arise if vampirism were to be revealed and made available is that all of humanity may want to be made vampire. Even if vampires feed from other species, or feed in a non-fatal way, there will eventually be no humans. This problem can of course be prevented if humans have children before they are made vampire, but then follows the problem of over-population.

If it were me, I would probably do my best to solve vampire issues first. I would ask myself and vampire society how to best ensure our (the vampires) survival and simultaneously be happy and healthy, and to think about this in a rational way. Hopefully it will be concluded that when there is a unity moving towards a goal, the more people that form that unity, the more likely it is that the goal be met. Vampires are made from humans, so making an enemy of them will be inconsistent to meeting that goal.

Once vampire society has reached a unity at that conclusion, I would introduce the same question to human society, and try to make them reach a unity with the same goal as the vampires have, then reveal vampirism and that we want the same thing and provide them with whatever information they want so they can decide whether to cooperate with us or not.

If vampirism should be revealed to the current state of humanity, it would simply be another resource in the game of the monetary economy, where gain and loss is not measured in how healthy and happy our species is, or even individuals.

Comment by Giriath on Luminosity (Twilight Fanfic) Discussion Thread 3 · 2011-01-09T00:28:10.205Z · LW · GW

Your portrayal of Allirea's power is one of my favourite parts.

I agree! She's a very quirky woman with a very interesting power that I very much enjoy, even if she does eat people and see herself as part of a 'master' race.

Comment by Giriath on Luminosity (Twilight Fanfic) Discussion Thread 3 · 2011-01-08T12:55:08.887Z · LW · GW

Aww...That's some cliffhanger Alicorn! Any theories on who the two unexpected vampire visitors are, anyone?

Comment by Giriath on Luminosity (Twilight Fanfic) Discussion Thread 3 · 2011-01-01T01:19:44.866Z · LW · GW

Even if it isn't strictly canon, I hardly think it's a horrible thing. Your Chelsea makes for a more interesting character, even if she is extremely creepy and most likely at least partly responsible for over a million murders.

Comment by Giriath on Luminosity (Twilight Fanfic) Discussion Thread 3 · 2010-12-30T21:57:42.806Z · LW · GW

I really enjoyed it too. I've never read of a pre-tragedy!Marcus that resembles anything close to what I think he would be like in canon. He's a very sharp man with a good handle on his power. He just doesn't have quite the same ambitions as Aro.

All the different personalities of the Volturi coven make me wonder how many arguments there have been about the morality of eating people. I'm sure many were prevented because Chelsea was the very first member in the guard.

Comment by Giriath on Luminosity (Twilight fanfic) Part 2 Discussion Thread · 2010-12-30T20:43:28.347Z · LW · GW

Well, the pervasive flaws in how our societies work creates competition, which will inevitably make people conspire against each other. Conspiracy theories are optimistic in that they often single out a single organization as the bad guys, when really what is needed to improve our lives and ensure our race survives as long as possible is drastic universal change in human culture.

Comment by Giriath on Luminosity (Twilight fanfic) Part 2 Discussion Thread · 2010-12-30T12:49:17.105Z · LW · GW

I'm aware of what you say. I'm sorry if I didn't convey that in my previous comment. We won't solve the problem by simply removing those who are most greedy (they are there, of course, and always have been) from their positions of power, because we too, are greedy. Like you say, humanity has to become more aware and rational, and learn to cooperate, because we all live in symbiosis with each other and everything else in the universe(s). There are still those with a lot of power who for some reason fight against this for monetary gain though. But in the end, they rely on other people to keep their system(s) in place. If people start being rational and think about what they're being told to do, and how society functions, then they'll soon find themselves with much less power, no matter how much money they have.

I will certainly study human rationality, but I will also study what technology can do for our future, in projects like 'The Venus Project'. If I find these things promising and useful, I'll spread the knowledge of them to the best of my ability.

Comment by Giriath on Luminosity (Twilight fanfic) Part 2 Discussion Thread · 2010-12-30T11:26:40.131Z · LW · GW

I don't have a child and I'm only really close with one family member, but if I had the opportunity to destroy an organization that kills hundreds of thousand of people and probably will kill a whole lot more if left unchecked, then I'd probably do my best no matter how many family members I lose, or I myself die. While fighting them I'd also be doing my best to make sure the system that will replace them will help people instead of kill them.

It's kind of like how I see today's society. We're almost all taught that success is to earn money; and that money is created out of nothing and has a value controlled by the corporations who have the most of it. Because they have so much money, they can control much of the world. Many politicians they have close ties to are funded and become a congressman or even President. They control the law and they control the industry.

They don't like people who spread this knowledge, but they're not much of a threat yet as the great majority do as they're taught and condemn them as crazy conspiracy theorists without getting any information on the topic or giving it a single thought. More of a threat are political leaders who want what is best for their people and start using the country's resources for them. They get bribed, threatened and scandalized or killed--in that order--if they're unwilling to be swayed.

Nowadays they just don't come to power. In countries where such leaders are elected by other politicians they are lumped together with the crazy conspiracy theorists. In countries where the people elect them, we get people like Aung San Suu Kyi who are isolated and ignored for 20 years while the world twirls its thumbs like they can't do anything.

I'd risk my life to change this system, which is what I believe people will eventually have to do if there is to be any change. It's the reason we have competition over resources we can make abundant with our technology; war, poverty, starvation etcetera are all results of the system, which thrives on scarcity, not abundance. That's why we use oil and diamonds for example, because they're scarce and therefore can be sold at a high price.

Comment by Giriath on Luminosity (Twilight fanfic) Part 2 Discussion Thread · 2010-12-28T11:01:57.619Z · LW · GW

Aro probably has more reasons to fear what Addy could do with her knowledge of his past actions and future plans than just his killing Didyme. I hope they find Bella soon. It seems like she would be essential in physically harming Renata, unless someone can injure her from outside her shield's effect range.

Comment by Giriath on Luminosity (Twilight fanfic) Part 2 Discussion Thread · 2010-12-22T16:34:59.433Z · LW · GW

So next chapter we're on the hunt for Siobhan. I hope she's not a witch, but rather very good at planning. Or if she does have a gift, it's sensible and not all too powerful. I wonder what Bella is doing. Maybe she's doing some planning of her own.

Comment by Giriath on Luminosity (Twilight fanfic) Part 2 Discussion Thread · 2010-12-21T16:27:29.823Z · LW · GW

But it shouldn't affect your enjoyment of the story too much if you have this knowledge via canon, I hope.

Not at all! The thing I enjoy most with suspense stories is trying to figure out what's going to happen next; especially when they aren't finished and regularly update, like yours. If I didn't know this from canon, then I wouldn't have anything to speculate on. This goes for all stories that at all derive from canon in some form. It's also fun to see what characteristics authors keep or change, in most characters.

I of course really really like your Bella, even though, in my opinion, she had some trouble balancing her very dangerous ambitions with her sugary-sweet family life, inevitably ending in disaster for both. Although, with the way things were going for the Volturi, it wouldn't have been long until they swooped in and destroyed that family life to put the family witches in their prison.

I'm very curious about the state of Aro's witchcraft after recent delves into Adelaide's memory, too. Did he know about the Quileute tribe before Irina went and told them, or did he have that information stored away but not processed yet? I'm guessing it's the latter, since he immediately acted when Irina requested their help. Can you provide some insight into that Alicorn, if not publicly then in a private message?

My guess is that he did know, but considering that the Cullen coven believed the gene to be dead (they did, right?), he thought it unimportant at the time. That all changed when Irina proved them very wrong, of course.

Comment by Giriath on Luminosity (Twilight fanfic) Part 2 Discussion Thread · 2010-12-21T14:49:19.425Z · LW · GW

I'm not sure if you've read Twilight Canon TheOtherDave, but Aro did kill his sister and Marcus' mate Didyme to prevent Marcus from leaving the coven, which was what Didyme had been wanting to do. I seem to remember this being said in Luminosity or Radiance, too, but maybe my memory errs.

In any case, Marcus is certain to go apeshit if he learns that particular piece of information. I doubt many are loyal to the catatonic man though, especially if Chelsea has been preventively cutting all his relationships - with the exception Aro's, Caius' and hers -, in case he should ever learn the truth and rebel. She still loses her ability to see what she's doing with her ability though, and that may over time damage relations with all the captives who aren't naturally loyal to them.

Comment by Giriath on Luminosity (Twilight fanfic) Part 2 Discussion Thread · 2010-12-19T06:21:29.963Z · LW · GW

Public spoilers! :O

I hope he's not there on behalf of Aro deeming Elspeth too dangerous. I have no idea why he'd do something like rebel though, but then we haven't exactly gotten any information on what goes on in the background. I guess it's also possible Addy developed the necessary heuristic to counteract Chelsea and spread it to Alec who for some reason doesn't want work for the Volturi and is for some reason now subduing Elspeth?

This is the most exciting we've had in a while. I just hope next chapter gives us at least a sliver of hope that things aren't going to continue to go so well for the Volturi.

Comment by Giriath on Luminosity (Twilight fanfic) Part 2 Discussion Thread · 2010-12-18T09:08:25.357Z · LW · GW

The only causes for her reaction at the end of chapter I can come up with are as follows.

1: She's been hit by Alec, and probably Addy has too.

2: Addy is sending all her memories to Elspeth, making her completely disoriented and "alone" with Addy's thoughts, that she interprets as her own.

3: Addy is sending her a memory of being hit by Alec, not all her memories.

  • 1 probably means there's a rebellion for some reason. Or, more likely; Aro has found out about Addy's sessions with Elspeth and deemed them too dangerous to continue. Alec is there to separate them and perhaps kill Elspeth to eliminate the risk of her spreading a heuristic allowing people to neutralize the effects of Chelsea's witchcraft very effectively.

  • 2 means we get to see whether Addy really is voluntarily working for the Volturi, or if she was tempted by their powers and later enslaved by Chelsea like everyone else. If she is, then she should have been able to use Magic to neutralize the effects like Elspeth does, but maybe she isn't able to make that decision herself but would turn sides if Elspeth sends her the same heuristic she would her friends.

  • 3 probably means Addy is testing if a memory of Alec's power is sufficient enough to keep a person subdued. If it is, then she may decide Elspeth's witchcraft can't develop any further and finally deem her uninteresting and not useful.

I hope it's something close to my second guess, so Elspeth can finally get on with freeing people from this horrible situation. And later the Volturi can hopefully get what's been a long time coming. Especially Aro, Chelsea and Addy, if she's a voluntary participant.

Comment by Giriath on Luminosity (Twilight fanfic) Part 2 Discussion Thread · 2010-12-15T06:48:16.110Z · LW · GW

Yes, this is probably (and hopefully) what will happen if there's to be an escape for Elspeth and potential vampires and wolves. I wonder how much Aro knows about Adelaide's interactions with Elspeth. Her judgement on the risk Elspeth poses may be clouded by her interest in developing the usefulness of a witch's power, but I doubt Aro has enough interest in that or enough tolerance for Adelaide to permit this huge risk. I think it's very unlikely that with all his wisdom and experience he wouldn't realize the risk, if he knew what Adelaide currently knows of Elspeth. If he did, he would probably order her and Jacob killed, immediately.

So I think it's safe to assume Adelaide hasn't shared her information on Elspeth with him since she learned of her ability to start behaving like she did before Chelsea affected her relationships, at will. If I remember correctly, we haven't learned much of Adelaide's life before she joined the Volturi, and so we can't know for sure how much of her behavior is caused by the effect Chelsea may have had on her. Perhaps she isn't loyal to the Volturi by her original values, and now that Chelsea may be concentrating more on Elspeth and the newly seeded witches, those are starting to come through, allowing her to refrain from reporting to Aro.

I imagine Aro would be worried enough to take action if he knew of Chelsea's continuously failed attempts to keep Elspeth's values of her relationships in check, too. Maybe she's too busy being afraid of what he may do if there's reason to believe her witchcraft isn't as infallible as previously believed, to consider whether Elspeth can pass the ability onto others or not. Just recently they learned of Bella, who she can't affect at all, and now Elspeth is, to Chelsea's knowledge, seemingly somehow able to restore much of her previous values, despite increased maintenance. She's probably scared out of wits of being deemed dispensable, irrational though it is, as neither Bella or Elspeth has any means to spread their immunities to others, yet.

If Elspeth is to do this, she will have to do it all very quickly at the right opportunity, and before Aro or anyone who would think the risk not worth anything she contributes gains the knowledge Adelaide and Chelsea posses. The Volturi have ways to detect what she is doing or about to do if she takes her time spreading her heuristic; Alice will for example likely see many vampires fleeing or rebelling - unless there are wolves or half-kinds nearby her or the subjects of her visions - when she makes the decision to spread it, or even as a result of her sessions with Adelaide, before she makes the final decision. Alice may however think about this before she informs Aro or anyone else in the Volturi, and decide to avoid doing that and instead flee together with Jasper when the others do, especially if she sees herself and Jasper flee in her initial visions.

Comment by Giriath on Luminosity (Twilight fanfic) Part 2 Discussion Thread · 2010-12-15T04:45:50.176Z · LW · GW

It's true that without certain witches like Adelaide and especially Chelsea, the Volturi would have nowhere near the same amount of power and control they have now. Their witchcraft isn't so powerful that they got where they are simply because they exist though; they've been using them intelligently, and creating situations in which they can be used most effectively, by other means.

There hasn't yet been, in my opinion, any I-WIN witchcraft that enables a witch to fight with anyone and everyone without caution, or making them unable or unwilling to fight. They've all had flaws and counters, and the Volturi are winning because they've been doing a good job of covering those for a very long time. They've been simultaneously killing off opposition and potential threats - by destroying the people responsible for it, or capturing them and making use of their talents - and painting themselves as good, necessary vampires. All this make Adelaide and Chelsea's witchcraft more powerful, as both are more useful the more people the Volturi surround themselves with.

They seem to me to never be overly overconfident; they're always trying to be conscious of their own weaknesses and try to cover them as fast and effectively as possible, while also trying to be as informed of potential threats as possible, so they may use their weaknesses to eliminate the threat they pose as fast and effectively as possible. That's very rational behavior in a conflict, in my opinion. I also think it's a very healthy mindset to have in everyday life, because not all threats to your well-being and over all happiness with life has to be an armed person directly threatening yours or your beloveds' lives; often it's someone in a position of power who either intently or obliviously negatively affects you and others everyday lives through laws, economy, educational systems, judicial systems, health systems etcetera.

Sadly today's societies have little to no insight to this problem, beyond those who sit in these positions - who may be corrupt, or ignorant that their actions cause other people harm, and that they can stop this. I believe this is why we live in a world where most condemn those who are different, rather than use reason and both biased and non-biased information to find out if their appearance, what they do and think or where they live mean they are dangerous to ones health and enjoyment of life.

Too much power is put in those in a position to govern others, with no organized reasonable way to discern if what they're doing make people healthier and happier - which is, to me, the ideal everyone should strive for, along with making sure our race (and second to us; other races) continue to live and be as healthy and happy as possible; something I believe will be severely hindered if our people aren't consistently educated to apply reason and rationality beyond scientific topics, to social topics.

A few months ago there was a poll in one of Sweden's biggest online newspapers that asked the readers if they believed the Earth would ever cease to exist or be destroyed, and an astounding majority believed that it wouldn't. A similar result is achieved if one asks: do you believe humanity will ever be extinct? If we weren't all so ignorant, but rather rational people using reason to understand each other and the world, I believe all of humanity could live healthier and happier lives, and for many more generations to come than if we continued to be ignorant.

Comment by Giriath on Luminosity (Twilight fanfic) Part 2 Discussion Thread · 2010-12-15T02:30:36.052Z · LW · GW

I like that this story is based on rationality and strategy and not my-awesome-control-the-world-witchcraft-is-better-than-yours one uppance, but - after reading the horrible actions of the Volturi from a first person perspective - if, say, Bella suddenly developed the ability to erase all effects of witchcraft on the mind, past and present, in a very large EMP-.like attack - making possible the destruction of the Volturi by the overwhelming mass of unwilling manpower they've recruited - , my first reaction would be to cheer.

As it is, I find the likelihood of that or something similar happening very slim. I wouldn't like such an anticlimax after my first initial reaction to the just demise of the Volturi, either. The Volturi are however looking more and more insurmountable to me, both from outside attack and anything Elspeth can currently do; key word being currently, as her witchcraft may develop in a surprisingly useful way neither she or Adelaide anticipated; Adelaide did say it had much potential for further development, and may even trump Aro's success in that regard.

I'd like to see Bella again, but with all the witches recaptured (with the exception of the teleporter) and all of them except Edward working for the Volturi, I don't see what she can do with those remaining of the Cullen family and a few of their known acquaintances, if they are even allied to her still. Maybe she'll act out of desperation and somehow manage to drop a really big bomb on the Volturi complex, with the hope that it kills as many enemies as possible, while sparing her family and allies. ;)

Comment by Giriath on Luminosity (Twilight fanfic) Part 2 Discussion Thread · 2010-12-14T02:08:50.895Z · LW · GW

I really hope all these horrible Volturi characters suffer immensely soon. I've said it before but for every one of these chapters it deserves to be said again: most wicked Volturi EVER!

Comment by Giriath on Luminosity (Twilight fanfic) Part 2 Discussion Thread · 2010-12-08T23:47:26.144Z · LW · GW

Yes. Like I said below it's been enough to make me wait for a while until there's enough updates that I can read straight through to happier times. If I don't then I feel queasy or enraged for quite a while after I've read the days chapter, and those are emotions I'd rather not have for very long. It's great writing Alicorn, but these recent chapters invoke these strong emotions in me and I'm currently unable to effectively mute them after I've read a chapter, so I won't be ranting here for a while. Maybe I'll save up enough content to have an extra huge rant, later on. ;)

Comment by Giriath on Luminosity (Twilight fanfic) Part 2 Discussion Thread · 2010-12-08T04:37:53.390Z · LW · GW

I'm not sure I want to follow the story every update right now. I get easily upset when things are going downhill in a story, and so it's easier to read if I know things will eventually turn for the better or at least reach a conclusion. I think I'll wait a few updates and then read up on what's happened. This control the Volturi has is especially upsetting now when we have evidence of what our own governments have been doing, unbeknownst to us, and that not much is being done about it even though it's in the open now.

Comment by Giriath on Luminosity (Twilight fanfic) Part 2 Discussion Thread · 2010-12-06T10:33:29.240Z · LW · GW

Then I realized under mind control she would no longer think of any of those people as notable enough to wonder about her reaction to. Which is the really, really creepy part.

Yes it is, which is likely why Chelsea is at the mandatory assembly every single day. That way none of them will have time to feel any inclination to investigate their past life. Instead they'll be all too busy living their little village life and thinking they're the good cops when they go out on missions. I imagine they're filled a lot of bullshit about the people they hunt and the Volturi's reasons before and during missions, so it makes any potential windows of re-evaluation created by killing and kidnapping people on demand, be as minor as possible so Chelsea has time to do maintenance before they rebel.

Hopefully Elspeth's witchcraft make her the exception to this routine, which we had small evidence of in this chapter. Thinking of herself as free sounded false to Elspeth, because of it. When she has run out of trivial things to blame for the reaction, she'll probably use it to figure out why it makes such a statement feel false. I think this means that my previous hypothesis that she can use it not just to remember her love for Bella (who she thought of really hard in attempt to not forget when being Chelsea'd), but to re-evaluate everything she thought and did in her life, because her witchcraft will tell her what is true, and she won't doubt that.

This means that when she finds a window of opportunity to do this without alerting Chelsea, she could command Jacob to round up his pack and everyone else they can get their hands onto, and get the hell out of Dodge. I'm also quite sure she could tell the villagers what is true about them, the Volturi and the world and her experiences of it, to make it much easier and faster for them to fight against the values created in their minds by Chelsea. That may take more time than it would for Chelsea to sound the alarm though, and if that happened she wouldn't get another chance.

Comment by Giriath on Luminosity (Twilight fanfic) Part 2 Discussion Thread · 2010-12-03T18:04:25.720Z · LW · GW

Well, sure. They suspected that should the Volturi force them to join, she would start brain-frying them into liking their superiors and want to please them. It was later revealed she would do this to any talented vampires the Volturi wanted that they came across, while breaking their ties to outsiders. But this was mentioned maybe once or twice out all four books. Eleazar and Carmen leave the Volturi unhindered, which isn't really the case in this story. I suspect the choice they were given here was to have severe restrictions on their freedom or be completely altered by Chelsea. I think she may be more powerful in this story, but like I said it wasn't really discussed in canon.

Comment by Giriath on Luminosity (Twilight fanfic) Part 2 Discussion Thread · 2010-12-03T17:43:41.486Z · LW · GW

I agree that Chelsea is terrifying in this story. In canon her gift is rarely ever talked about, and the narrator (Bella) never really experiences it in any way. The effects of Chelsea's witchcraft have been felt all through late Luminosity and Radiance though, and it's certainly terrible. I have hope though that those affected can restore much of their previous personality and relationships by way of re-evaluating their memories, and even quicker with help from Elspeth, who is very hard to doubt. If precious friends and lovers have been killed or otherwise lost though, they'll never be the same.

The Volturi always had the capability of being horrifying in canon Twilight, but because SM was writing it as a love story they had to take a back seat and be very inactive and stupid when present, despite all their experience.

Comment by Giriath on Luminosity (Twilight fanfic) Part 2 Discussion Thread · 2010-12-03T16:25:30.161Z · LW · GW

I'm wondering if the other person Elspeth sees when she tries to 'talk' to herself is the manifestation of her witchcraft, which simply wants to tell the truth. If so, she should be able to use that to start doubting the way Chelsea has tweaked her to evaluate other people much quicker than if she were to begin re-evaluating her memories; memories that she may not trust with her new values. She has no reason not to trust her witchcraft however, so if she asks it about herself and what she thought of others before being Chelsea'd, she may recover very quickly. Once she's done this, she may also be able to help the Quileutes recover their original values. If not, then at least she can order Jacob around.

Comment by Giriath on Luminosity (Twilight fanfic) Part 2 Discussion Thread · 2010-12-03T14:02:34.407Z · LW · GW

Yay! Apparently I didn't prevent people from liking her by having her first onscreen action be murder!

That's mostly because the Volturi are so terrifying in your story. Vampires and half-vampires who eat people without any sadistic enjoyment of their victims death and pain, I can tolerate when the Volturi exists. When they don't and some other evil organization hasn't taken their place, I still see vampires who feed like that to be an issue of suggestion and coercion. I'd try to have intelligent debates with them on why they shouldn't kill humans, or at least try to stick to criminals, and offer to help them do that if they're willing. The natural order of things on Earth is that all things die or are destroyed and recreated in some other form, after all. Without extensive research on the effects to society and the ecosystem of Earth if a large part of humanity were to be turned immortal (in age), I certainly wouldn't recommend trying it.

Anyway, Allirea hasn't shown any sadistic tendencies yet, except perhaps for what she might to do a defenceless Demitri, but that's all deserved. She's been taught to kill humans and to think herself as part of a higher race, it's not something she chose to do really. If she decides to stick with that belief after considerable evidence to the contrary I still won't say she's evil, unless she starts finding it enjoyable to terrorize people she now knows she may not have a right to do whatever she wishes with. Besides, I love all her quirks!

Aro and the Volturi however know all about morals but don't care a squat about anything that doesn't benefit them. I can imagine the Volturi of canon doing all this, but since it's a love story at heart SM didn't really write much about them and their deeds. If Alicorn's story is an accurate portrayal of how the Volturi act under pressure, then I fear the happily-ever-after of canon was simply a prelude to slaughter of naive characters. Demitri would likely check when the rebellion broke up, and then they would storm in and kill the Cullen's, Bella being their main target.

Comment by Giriath on Luminosity (Twilight fanfic) Part 2 Discussion Thread · 2010-12-03T00:58:01.651Z · LW · GW

and the way you introduced Allirea didn't feel forced or unrealistic

I love Allirea! I think she's my new favorite character in the story. I think she's kind of the pessimistic, unwilling comedic relief. It always brightens the mood when she suddenly pops up and everyone goes "Oh right, Allirea exists!", and it's fun because she's right there and may even be touching them. Another fun scenario is if her witchcraft doesn't work on Bella and whenever Bella would talk about Allirea no one would know what she was talking about unless Allirea chooses to show herself, or Bella learns to shield people.

I wonder why Bella's shield doesn't negate the effects of Pera's witchcraft. It has been explained what it can do, but the characters seem not to know how it works. Does it transport those hidden to another dimension where beings of their race and its subspecies (vampire, werewolf etcetera - all beings originating from humans) aren't present, but other races (plant life, other kinds of animals e.t.c.) and non-living objects are? Or does Pera release some energy onto the things she uses her witchcraft on that makes it impossible to detect with your senses, or like Allirea unnoticeable even though your senses can register it? I think the latter hypothesis is more likely, and so I believe Bella should be able to learn to be unaffected by it. If I'm right, then I'm puzzled as to why she was affected by it in the first place.

Comment by Giriath on Luminosity (Twilight fanfic) Part 2 Discussion Thread · 2010-12-01T14:58:38.487Z · LW · GW

Chelsea can certainly make people very predictable. If one has a mate, then all they're going to care about after being Chelsea'd is their safety, and they're most probably not going to trust anyone else with protecting them until they've rebuilt their relationships. If one doesn't have a mate, then he or she is going to care about his or her safety and no one else's, and it will probably take them a while to find allies they're able to trust with their life. If you don't trust anyone, it will be very hard to make a sensible plan and stick to it.

This makes me wonder if Edward won't just run away from the battle, if he hasn't somehow been incapacitated of course. If there seems to be no way to win or get Elspeth out of there, he would want to find Bella and stop her before she can get there.

Comment by Giriath on Luminosity (Twilight fanfic) Part 2 Discussion Thread · 2010-12-01T02:49:32.036Z · LW · GW

I thought you said things would calm down for a while after chapter 10 Alicorn?! Jasper and Edward sure went brain-fried by their mate connection. I had my eyebrows pretty high when Jasper described his impromptu battle plan, and it seems I was right to be sceptic, cause damn them vampires turn stupid when their mate is in trouble.

We're in need of some heroics here or there'll be multiple dead characters next chapter. I think Santiago will decide that only Edward and Elspeth are worth sparing out of this bunch. I doubt Bella will suddenly start owning with her witchcraft in this story though, so perhaps there's some other kind of intervention? Maybe Bella brought company. Anyway I don't see how Elspeth and co. would escape if they're brought back to Volterra again.

Comment by Giriath on Luminosity (Twilight fanfic) Part 2 Discussion Thread · 2010-11-26T12:25:02.987Z · LW · GW

How do you quote or make HTML in general in these comments? I've looked around in the FAQ but wasn't able to find out how.

Chelsea was/is working on the imprints too, presumably so that they won't want to leave and ask their respective wolf to take them away or attack the Volturi. Now this was a very sad chapter in my opinion, even though we learned Alice was alive (which I had previously had privately confirmed by Alicorn, so no surprise there for me) and she reunited with Jasper. The effects of Chelsea's witchcraft really hurts. It's much more interesting in this story than canon, where it's barely spoken about but hinted that it isn't all that powerful - at least that's the way I saw it. Maybe that's just because the main characters never had to be subjected to the effects of her power in canon though, and consequently we didn't get an opportunity to witness it and the reactions of the characters.

It's very sad that these characters who used to love Elspeth now see her as little more than a hindrance to getting to their mates as fast and safe as possible. It's possible that will change when they are reunited with their mates and given time, and the situation with Bella won't be as bad as Elspeth makes it out to be just because she suddenly loves her second-most. She does need to grow up and work on her relationship with Jacob whenever that time comes, but first she needs to grow out of her sheltered self who relies entirely on her 'mama'.

I really really want Bella to learn to expand her shield to others. It's possible that just doing that once will erase any lasting witchcraft effects such as Chelsea's, especially since witchcraft are relative to how their owners believe they work in this story, and Bella is a master of getting her mind to do what she wants it to.

If the Cullen's (with considerable help from others) manage to defeat the Volturi and create a new vampire 'government', then I can totally see Elspeth as the radiant public figure who everyone is willing to listen to and easily understand, while Bella is an advisor who rationalises plans and presents them to others on the new government. I figure it unlikely that such a government would be willing to enforce Bella's views on killing humans, though they might be amenable to encourage it or find other non-fatal ways to drink human blood or put effort in finding an equally satisfying substitute. A new government advocating non-violence and freedom after exposing the dirtier deeds of the Volturi could be very successful, especially with leading figures acquiring their positions because of their abilities to fill it, not because they seem themselves as the masters of the universe and demand a ruling position. Of course, there will be many looking to exploit the downfall of the Volturi to gain power, but with the many witches of the original rebellion and any others who might decide to join the new government, they will be very hard to defeat in combat or penetrate with less than sincere intentions.

I truly hope that is where the story is going: the defeat of the Volturi and the formation of a new vampire government. I also hope Alicorn writes about this and doesn't call it quits when the major confrontation is over, because it would be very interesting to read about the creation of the government and the world's reaction to it, and later conclude the story when things have settled somewhat.

Comment by Giriath on Luminosity (Twilight fanfic) Part 2 Discussion Thread · 2010-11-25T18:18:35.222Z · LW · GW

Yes. And should Alice be alive and out and about to the Volturi's knowledge, then they would probably try to send at least one of these people with every hunting group, to prevent any forewarning visions. I wonder if Alice's visions can't be affected the same as Bella's shield though. If she started believing she should be able to see the half-kinds in her visions would she? - any comments on that Alicorn?

Comment by Giriath on Luminosity (Twilight fanfic) Part 2 Discussion Thread · 2010-11-24T11:06:58.982Z · LW · GW

Edward is probably completely indifferent to Elspeth right now, but as you said she simply needs to show him that Bella is alive and that she really wants Elspeth to be alive and well. She shouldn't have to show him this through visualization with her witchcraft; he can read her mind and she can talk with absolute sincerity. If he snaps out of it quick enough, he'll probably recognize the threat of Adelaide and either kill, incapacitate or keep her busy while Elspeth and Allirea flee.

The revelation that the Volturi can keep prisoners and make use of their witchcraft like this begs the question of who they have actually killed; is Alice alive perhaps? I'm not sure Elspeth would have time to recognize her in the pandemonium of the prisoners escape, and with all the potential witchcraft present (one could seemingly turn invisible), there's no telling how someone could help her escape unnoticed. Her witchcraft is very powerful so the Volturi would be interested in keeping her, but then again Jasper claims to have felt her die. She may have been considered too powerful and uncooperative to let live.

I think it's one of the Volturi's most stupid mistakes to have such a large collection of unwilling and vengeful witches in one place - and right in their base of operations, no less. Any enemy with knowledge of this and the capability of penetrating the castle and freeing the prisoners will have successfully detonated a bomb of witchcraft on them, and it's possible they're made more pliable by having almost all of their relationships wiped out, so it shouldn't be hard to persuade them to join a rebel army.

On a last note I must say that this story has the most interesting take on 'gifts' -or witchcraft as it's called in this story- of all supernatural Twilight stories I've read. None so far have been ridiculously powerful and they all have limits and counters. Best of all they can be explained and make sense within the Twilight universe. I'd often wondered how it was that Aro could process all the insignificant memories of a being thousand of years old in a mere few moments, and without affecting his own personality. Alicorn's take on that is more reasonable than that he would for example gain an extreme temporary boost in brain-capacity to make sense of all the intake while his gift is active, and this would very likely still affect his personality since he has in essence just experienced everything another individual has.

Comment by Giriath on Luminosity (Twilight fanfic) Part 2 Discussion Thread · 2010-11-24T10:19:01.040Z · LW · GW

I thought it might be, but I couldn't be sure without asking you.

Comment by Giriath on Luminosity (Twilight fanfic) Part 2 Discussion Thread · 2010-11-24T02:47:37.313Z · LW · GW

Most likely she's Nahuel's eldest sister: Allirea, Noemi or Iseul. Alicorn hasn't yet written which one of them is the eldest.

Comment by Giriath on Luminosity (Twilight fanfic) discussion thread · 2010-11-22T18:07:45.132Z · LW · GW

I may be very late in answering this and it may also be a rhetorical question, but no, as far as I know there aren't ever many humans living on Antarctica, although I'm quite sure there's almost always scientists present. They certainly wouldn't be hard to avoid, but if newborns are supposed to train to abstain there it's not a stretch to imagine someone who knows where the human settlement is managing to slip away from supervision and kill them, which would lead to more humans coming to investigate.