What's your "rationalist arguing" origin story?

The Autobiography of Benjamin Franklin had a good effect. Though I don't really follow it, it has helped me somewhat in getting me focused on being something other than a Defender of the Faith in an argument.

Good old Ben seems an effective instrumental rationalist. If you're going to argue, look to what you're trying to achieve and behave accordingly. I'd add to look to what value you can get from the opportunity. Correcting the other guy has next to no value to you in itself.

-- Autobiography of Benjamin Franklin

I made it a rule to forbear all direct contradictions to the sentiments of others, and all positive assertion of my own. I even forbade myself the use of every word or expression in the language that imported a fixed opinion, such as "certainly", "undoubtedly", etc. I adopted instead of them "I conceive", "I apprehend", or "I imagine" a thing to be so or so; or "so it appears to me at present".

When another asserted something that I thought an error, I denied myself the pleasure of contradicting him abruptly, and of showing him immediately some absurdity in his proposition. In answering I began by observing that in certain cases or circumstances his opinion would be right, but in the present case there appeared or semed to me some difference, etc. I soon found the advantage of this change in my manner; the conversations I engaged in went on more pleasantly. The modest way in which I proposed my opinions procured them a readier reception and less contradiction. I had less mortification when I was found to be in the wrong, and I more easily prevailed with others to give up their mistakes and join with me when I happened to be in the right.

For me, the breaking point occurred when I became a salesman. After about a month of rigorously working in that environment, it was just too easy to convince someone that an idea was true or false when it was beneficial for me to do so. Moreover, I realized that those same techniques were being used by my bosses on me.

I'd joked before about how easy it was to manipulate people, and I'd always cared about what was true (for as far back as I can remember, it was drilled in at a very early age) but that was the point where I stopped really caring about who "won" in an argument, because it broke "winning" down to rhetoric and manipulative technique. A few months later, I discovered LW, which helped break me of some bad beliefs I had at the time. But the shift from "winning arguments" to "finding truth" definitely happened when I got out of sales.

When I went to college, I joined a philosophical debating group. We didn't score debate; the only way to win was by winning over a convert or by being converted yourself. When people stood for office, they'd often be asked "Have you ever broken someone on the floor?" and "Have you ever been broken on the floor?" (we had a pretty pugilistic affect so "breaking on the floor" was our way of saying "get questions following your speech that either changed your mind or made you really uncertain).

Until I found LW, it was the first culture I was part of where it was really honorable to admit error, but not in a cringe-y "who can really know?" way. The debate group was also the first place I met really smart people who disagreed with me on obvious-feeling things, so I got a lot more curious about which of us should break.

Weird brain. Dead friend. Intermittently suicidal ex-girlfriend. 'Nuff said.

Well, I don't think I do "rationalist arguing" especially.

But I do think I'm OK at approaching disagreements as cooperative efforts at communication, rather than as debates to be won. I try to adopt the attitude that winning a discussion is like winning a game of catch.

No particularly interesting story, just a gradual realization that debate wasn't getting me anything I wanted, regardless of whether I won or lost, so it was time to try other things, and the place to start was figuring out what I did want. Which, after a while, turned out to primarily be that I wanted to be able to walk away from a disagreement understanding what the other person believed, why they believed it, and what precisely it was we disagreed about... and, secondarily, to feel confident that they understood what I believed, why I believed it, and what we disagreed about.

After a while I mostly gave up on that second goal, as it became increasingly clear that mostly people weren't interested in that, but they were usually quite happy to tell me all about their own beliefs.

I'm still getting the hang of it, really; it's not uncommon for me to get sufficiently caught up in a disagreement that I end up trying to win it.

I suspect that a part of my attraction to truth was that my social skills were not good enough to make me a decent liar. For other people lying seemed to work often, but it did not work for me. I was not able to predict what people wanted to hear, and to say it plausibly.

So in my model of the world, knowing the truth seemed like the best strategy for me. In reality, it worked well in math and computer programming, but I failed to translate it into instrumental rationality. I was not able to deal with the amounts of existing disinformation myself, and I did not find other rational (outside the laboratory) people near me.

I'm not sure it counts as an origin story, but after I noticed a lot of discussions/arguments seemed to devolve into arguments about what words meant, or similar, I got the idea this was because we didn't 'agree on our axioms' (I'd studied some maths). Sadly, trying to get agreement on what we each meant by the things we disagreed on didn't seem to work - I think that the other party mostly considered it an underhanded trick and gave up. :(

Vanity. People who try to win at all costs and never back down dig themselves into holes make fools of themselves.

Im pretty sure this was my orifinal/default style of arguing.

I mostly only argue to win for sport or for winning memetic battles.

I have no idea when I first start becoming a rationalist. I think I was curious about things, so I would keep acquring new intellectual ideas that are interesting to me. Gradually I came around to the idea of rationality and that winning the debate is not the same thing as being right.

Arguing against god(s) circa 9 years of age or so.