Both-Sidesism—When Fair & Balanced Goes Wrong

post by James Stephen Brown (james-brown) · 2024-11-02T03:04:03.820Z · LW · GW · 15 comments

This is a link post for https://nonzerosum.games/bothsidesism.html

Contents

    A Poisoned Chalice
  Equivocation and False Equivalence
    There Really is a Lesser of Two Evils
    Science is not Democratic
      Mr Popper & Falsifiability
  Public Discourse: a Non-Zero-Sum Game
  Polarisation
    Exploiting Fairness
    Different Motivations
  Why is the Right in America Worse?
    What Does This Mean?
    A Resulting Double-Standard
    The New Balance of Independent Online Voices
  Moving Forward
  Practicing What I'm Preaching
    Kamala
    Donald
  So…
      Related Material
None
15 comments

In a few days time, voting will close for millions of Americans in one of the most contentious and globally consequential elections in world history. And while this week’s subject; both-sidesism, is ‘evergreen’ in that the topic will continue to be relevant long into the future, this election has highlighted its significance and introduced some new turns.

A Poisoned Chalice

In the quest for a fair and informed society, the notion of presenting both sides of an argument has been deeply ingrained in our understanding of balance. This principle was institutionalised in the US with the introduction of the Fairness Doctrine in 1949.

“The Fairness Doctrine was rooted in the notion that the broadcast spectrum is a public resource, and those who are licensed to use it have an obligation to serve the public interest by facilitating informed debate.”
-Encyclopædia Britannica

While well-intentioned, the doctrine inadvertently codified the fallacy of both-sidesism, where equal representation is given to opposing viewpoints regardless of merit or evidence. This has had lasting implications on public discourse, science communication, and the health of our democracy.

Equivocation and False Equivalence

Both-sidesism often relies on two logical fallacies: equivocation and false equivalence. Equivocation uses ambiguous language to mask the truth, while false equivalence presents two unequal things as equal.

There Really is a Lesser of Two Evils

We see false equivalence playing out in the political arena when commentators claim there is “radicalism” on both sides in reference to radical woke leftists quibbling about pronouns in relation to a mainstream right-wing presidential candidate promising to use the military against the “enemy within”.

Presently, radical left-wing ideas are simply not comparable to radical right-wing ideas. A recent study in Nature found that…

… conservatives were less supportive of political equality and legal rights and guarantees and more willing to defect from democratic “rules of the game” and vote for anti-democratic candidates, even after adjusting for political extremism.
-Débora de Oliveira Santos & John T. Jost

So, by implying that extreme views are equally distributed across the political spectrum, both-sidesism masks real threats to democratic values.

Science is not Democratic

Equivocation is often used to undermine scientific discourse, the term ‘theory’ refers to a well-substantiated explanation based on evidence. However, in casual conversation, “theory” might imply a mere guess. This equivocation allows scientifically unsupported ideas like intelligent design to be presented alongside evolution as equally valid theories. We live in a democracy, where everyone gets a vote, but science does not operate that way, it is structured so as to find the most likely explanation, not the most popular one.

Mr Popper & Falsifiability

Philosopher Karl Popper emphasised the importance of falsifiability in distinguishing science from non-science. A falsifiable claim is one where, if it is wrong, there is a clear way to show that it is false. So, a claim that there is not a hippopotamus in the office can easily be falsified if there is actually a hippopotamus in the office. Where as a claim that there is an intelligent being that exists outside of time and space is not falsifiable.

“In so far as a scientific statement speaks about reality, it must be falsifiable; and in so far as it is not falsifiable, it does not speak about reality.”
-Karl Popper (The Logic of Scientific Discovery)

Popper’s philosophy underscores that not all ideas hold equal validity. Scientific theories gain acceptance through rigorous testing and the ability to be proven wrong, a process that unfounded opinions do not undergo.

Public Discourse: a Non-Zero-Sum Game

To understand the implications of both-sidesism, we can turn to game theory, specifically non-zero-sum games.

In my Non-Zero Thinking for Kids workshop, the first thing I noticed was that the kids had a very zero-sum conception of fairness, which is understandable, they are taught that fairness means everyone getting the same amount-and if anyone gets more or less the game is unfair. When dividing up lollies they would even give back surplus lollies that were not divisible, in order for everyone to get the same.

At the same time, when exposed to competitive non-zero-sum games like the prisoner’s dilemma, many utilised the same short-term strategies as adults, defecting to get individual advantage at the expense of future cooperative gains.

But when I introduced the class to a public goods game where individuals choose how much to contribute to a common pool that benefits all, they learned a new lesson. If everyone contributed, the group maximised its benefit. However, if individuals acted selfishly and withheld their contribution, the common good suffered. It was impressive how quickly kids cottoned on to the benefits of mutual cooperation.

Applying this to public discourse, when media outlets and individuals prioritise truthful, evidence-based information (contributing to the common pool), society as a whole benefits. However, when both-sidesism elevates unsupported or false viewpoints (withholding contribution), it undermines trust.

Polarisation

But, we have seen, particularly in the US, the increasing polarisation of news coverage, doesn’t the fairness doctrine protect against this?

Exploiting Fairness

When Reagan, in 1987, repealed the Fairness Doctrine, rather than solving the issue of both-sidesism it opened the flood-gates to partisan news outlets who could then exploit a public indoctrinated with the philosophy of both-sidesism, to deliver partisan messages under the guise of being “Fair and Balanced” without the legal requirement to be so-allowing the presentation of fringe or debunked perspectives alongside facts.

But something interesting has happened in the Trump era, as he has shown himself to be an increasingly dangerous person, pining for “ Hitler’s generals”, being “not a dictator, except for day one”, promising “ you won’t have to vote anymore”, threatening to lock up his political opponents, and referring to the people around Kamala Harris as “ scum”, “ garbage” and “ the enemy within”. The mainstream media, in the name of being honest about a clear and present danger, have finally dispensed with both-sidesism-and this is not a bad thing.

Different Motivations

Where the choice of feigning balance on right-wing outlets like Fox has been motivated by a need to sell bad ideas to the public, and now to sane-wash the ramblings of a mad-man, the switch to partisanship on the left has been motivated by a commitment to truth, and being on the right side of history, over superficial balance.

Why is the Right in America Worse?

Ideally, democracy mitigates imbalances, meaning that a balanced approach to the news is warranted. But America is not an ordinary democracy, it has an Electoral College which was structured, during the time of slavery, and preserved the political power of slave states, in a way that consistently benefits Republicans. The popular vote in 2000 Bush v Gore went to Gore, and in 2016 Trump v Clinton went to Clinton by almost 3 million votes, meaning that, in an ordinary democracy, no new Republican would have been elected since George Bush Sr in 1988. Of course Republicans would have been forced to respond to such losses by appealing to the centre to be competitive, thereby mitigating radicalisation.

What Does This Mean?

As it stands though, with the Electoral College advantage, Republicans are able to put less qualified, less capable and increasingly more radical candidates forward, while democrats are forced to appeal to the centre and even the centre right, in order to remain competitive, leaving them in a constant battle on two fronts.

This Republican advantage means that those candidates have an outweighed opportunity to install Supreme Court justices, and because they are radical candidates they are more likely to install radical judges. This also has a psychological effect on the population, giving a false impression of where the “centre” is.

A Resulting Double-Standard

Despite this full-throated calling out of Trump’s demagoguery, heading into potentially the most consequential election in modern US history, the razor’s edge polls suggest that the doctrine of both-sidesism is alive and well in the population. This manifests in a profound double standard, which I’ve (conservatively) mapped on to a payoff matrix.

This imbalance, in turn, informs a new generation of media about where “balance” lies.

The New Balance of Independent Online Voices

When independent online personalities like Sam Harris, Joe Rogan or Lex Fridman (believing they are on the left) attempt to reach “across the aisle” to the right (to achieve balance) to the Ben Shapiros, or the Jordan Petersons, or in the case of Joe and Lex, to Trump himself, they are in fact merely contributing to a centre-right online media environment. For the public this then reinforces the inaccurate centre, which informs norms-allowing them to shift right in a way that allows for mass radicalisation.

Moving Forward

To address the challenges posed by both-sidesism, we must recalibrate our understanding of fairness. This involves:

Practicing What I'm Preaching

Unfortunately, in the US these solutions are not being exercised on both side. This is due to the radicalisation on the mainstream right enabled by the pernicious partnership of both-sidesism with the Electoral College. So, this is where I reveal (if it’s not already obvious) that I am not an impartial party in all this.

Kamala

There is one candidate, Kamala Harris, who cares about expertise (particularly her economic plan, which is lauded by experts), critical thinking and collaboration (her will to work together on the border with Republicans).

Donald

On the other hand we have a very dangerous candidate in Donald Trump who, along with his fascistic rhetoric, denies expert opinions on tariffs, deals in highly uncritical thinking “they’re eating the cats, they’re eating the dogs” and shows no interest in collaboration, even with establishment Republicans, let alone Democrats. He has made it clear who he is, and who he serves (himself).

So…

The Fairness Doctrine, though rooted in noble intentions, inadvertently contributed to the entrenchment of both-sidesism by codifying equal representation without consideration of merit. In an age where misinformation can spread rapidly, it’s imperative to prioritise truth and evidence over an oversimplified, or even childish notion of balance, and call it out when one side has become truly dangerous.

I am not a US citizen, so cannot vote in this globally significant election in a few days time. For any US citizens reading, please spare a thought for the rest of us and for the future of the world and be on the right side of history.

15 comments

Comments sorted by top scores.

comment by AnthonyC · 2024-11-02T12:24:54.025Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

TBH one of the things I always wonder about is not so much the "sidesism" as the "both." How are people deciding what should count as a side, and why there should be two? And when should something no longer count as a side? 

I mean, I get it in practice, there's nothing this self-reflective going on at all and it's all decided by inertia, FPTP voting, and revenue. I still would naively have expected more people on the audience side to have the realization that:

this didn’t seem to fit into the Headmaster’s list; and it occurred to Hermione that there might be a lot more viewpoints on the subject than just four.

Replies from: hastings-greer, james-brown
comment by Hastings (hastings-greer) · 2024-11-08T18:51:13.704Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

I have observed a transition. 12 years ago, the left-right split was based on many loosely correlated factors and strategic/inertial effects, creating bizarre situations like near perfect correlation between opinions on Gay Marriage and privatization of social security. I think at that time you could reason much better if you could recognize that the separation between left and right was not natural. I at least have a ton of cached arguments from this era because it became such a familiar dynamic. 

Nowadays, I don't think this old schema really applies, especially among the actual elected officers and party leadership. The effective left right split is mono-factor: you are right exactly in proportion to your personal loyalty to one Donald J. Trump, resulting in bizarre situations like Dick Cheney being classified as "Left."  

 

Replies from: james-brown
comment by James Stephen Brown (james-brown) · 2024-11-09T17:22:14.509Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Thanks Hastings,

I think at that time you could reason much better if you could recognize that the separation between left and right was not natural.

I think you're saying it was easier in the past to see unorthodox or contradictory views within parties because the wings were more clearly delineated. I'd agree, it was a divided time, but a less chaotic divided time.

The effective left right split is mono-factor: you are right exactly in proportion to your personal loyalty to one Donald J. Trump

Absolutely, it's also bizarre regarding his tariff policy which is wholly anti-free market, that's a point the left didn't pick up on (because of the chaos I imagine) that was obvious to me. As a left-wing (pro-taxation) person myself who also believes in free markets, his approach is so anti-thetical to my own views, as if he took the last good idea on the right (free markets), and abandoned that in order to create a party based on all the bad ideas. This sort of contrarianism is something I've read Steven Pinker write about as a loyalty test (to despots and cult leaders)—the inducement to followers to knowingly lie or act contrary to their own interests as a statement of loyalty to each other through joint faith in the dear leader.

comment by James Stephen Brown (james-brown) · 2024-11-02T16:39:45.702Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Good point, I guess all-sidesism would be more desirable, this would take the form of panels representing different experts, opinions or demographics. Some issues, like US politics do end up necessarily polarised though, given there are only two options, even if you begin with a panel—they did start with an anti-vax candidate too with RFK Jr (with the Ds and even the Rs being arguably pro-vax), but political expediency results in his being subsumed into the binary.

Replies from: AnthonyC
comment by AnthonyC · 2024-11-02T17:52:18.855Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

General elections necessarily do. Coverage of issues does not. Assignment of opinions in the press can be to people and ideologies without pretending everyone in a party shares or should share identical views.

Replies from: james-brown
comment by James Stephen Brown (james-brown) · 2024-11-02T22:48:09.121Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

I agree, it seems as though the incentives aren't aligned that way, so it ends up incumbent upon the audience to distill nuance out of binary messaging, and to recognise the value of those who do present unique perspectives.

comment by notfnofn · 2024-11-02T17:11:52.668Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

I agree that Trump is the clear "worse" option in this election, but this post has a lot of left-leaning bias that makes it feel unconvincing. Several examples:

We see false equivalence playing out in the political arena when commentators claim there is “radicalism” on both sides in reference to radical woke leftists quibbling about pronouns in relation to a mainstream right-wing presidential candidate promising to use the military against the “enemy within”.

You took one of the tamest aspects of the radical left here. That quote by Trump is really pernicious but it could have easily been compared to parallel views of the radical left (who e.g. believe that people who voice certain opinions online should be arrested). 

See? There's antisemitism on both sides

There is antisemitism amongst the pro-Palestine crowd; getting numbers might be hard but I think the easier argument to make is that Kamala is pro-Israel anyway, just less dramatically so.

There is one candidate, Kamala Harris, who cares about expertise (particularly her economic plan, which is lauded by experts), critical thinking and collaboration (her will to work together on the border with Republicans).

She also took power without a single vote by lying to the American public that Biden was mentally healthy until it was too late to have a fair election. It's hard to believe she would have won the nomination normally, given her 2020 performance. I'm also a little skeptical about her economic plan being that good (aren't price controls in there?) but I don't know nearly enough about economics to know for sure.

 

I think the best aspect of this post is that Nature study.

Replies from: james-brown
comment by James Stephen Brown (james-brown) · 2024-11-02T23:37:24.683Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Thanks for your comment, the post itself is meant to challenge the reader to question what is really bias, and what is actually an even-handed view with apparent bias, due to the shifted centre. But I certainly take your point, beginning in a clearly partisan manner might not have been the best approach before putting it in context.

I do think there are defences that can be made of the points you raise.

You took one of the tamest aspects of the radical left here

I agree I have taken a tame aspect of the radical left, because there are only tame aspects available. This is my point. The claim you point to, that the left is involved in cancelling conservative voices (not arresting conservatives, as you've clarified this claim is not supported by evidence) isn't any less tame than the accusation of pro-LGBTQ woke-ness. Cancel culture is just a naturally occurring aspect of the free market of ideas (people are free to boycott whatever they like and employers are free to protect their businesses from public backlash). People on the right who usually advocate for free markets should know this best. 

The trans issue is a perennial touchstone that has been used as the consistent example of radical left woke-ness for years, and throughout this campaign.

There is antisemitism amongst the pro-Palestine crowd

I don't doubt you are correct that anti-Israel sentiment can stray into anti-semitism. But the point is about motivations, one side is motivated by sympathy for a population with 10s of thousands of people being killed over a year, and millions being displaced and having their homes destroyed, the other is motivated by white supremacy. Do you not see this as a false equivalence?

In short, I think pronouns and Palestine were fair comparisons. 'Cancel' (or 'accountability') culture could well be counted as another valid comparison, with a similar tameness to the examples I did use. The reason they sound so tame is because they are tame, they are not comparable, which is the point I'm making—it is the assumption of both-sidesism that leads people to draw the false equivalence.

But, again I agree that I should have spent some time explaining the problem of both-sidesism and the shifted centre before acting in accordance with the principles with which the post concludes.

I don't know nearly enough about economics to know for sure.

I'm in the same position. It's at these points where I defer to experts, which is what I have advised in the post.

Thanks again for your comment. I hope my comment hasn't been too argumentative, it's meant to explain as an extension of the post.

Replies from: notfnofn
comment by notfnofn · 2024-11-03T13:51:07.706Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

I think you misread my post; I didn't mention Kamala Harris' rightful nomination as an opinion of the far left (the far left doesn't even like her). Instead I mentioned something that I can no longer find evidence for and might actually be wrong (that the far left supports people being arrested for far-right opinions held online). I'd like to update this to people on the far left supporting people who have conservative opinions being exposed and fired. I brought up the issue with Kamala specifically in response to your pair of paragraphs describing each candidate.

I don't want to engage with the rest right now because, as I said, I don't want Trump elected and don't want to write anything that would increase the chance of that occurring. I might reply in a few days.

Replies from: james-brown
comment by James Stephen Brown (james-brown) · 2024-11-03T16:09:13.486Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Sorry, you’re right, I did misread that—I've edited my response, correcting for my mistake.

Replies from: notfnofn
comment by notfnofn · 2024-11-06T19:38:18.048Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Okay Trump is president now. Hoping that things go well regardless.

The trans issue is a perennial touchstone that has been used as the consistent example of radical left woke-ness for years, and throughout this campaign.

The reason for this is the same reason democrats kept harping an abortion - it's something the majority of the country agreed with them on, and so they could use it to their advantage. It's not necessarily that it was the worst issue, but the easiest target.

I'm a bit concerned that you referred to cancel culture as "accountability culture", but I don't want to get distracted by that here. What I was hoping to get into is that people on the right have done it too when they had power, will probably do so now, and the key difference is that their leader will likely explicitly support it (instead of just being silent about it).

But the point is about motivations, one side is motivated by sympathy for a population with 10s of thousands of people being killed over a year, and millions being displaced and having their homes destroyed, the other is motivated by white supremacy. Do you not see this as a false equivalence?

Yes, but a more careful "apples to apples" analysis is necessary here. Are you comparing the opinions of US politicians on the left with US politicians on the right? Or are you comparing them with randos on the right? If you want to convince people on the right instead of just generating applause on the left, you probably need to do this more carefully.

I'm in the same position. It's at these points where I defer to experts, which is what I have advised in the post.

How seriously have you investigated the claim that "Harris's plan is based on what many top economists think is best" and not "Economists find Harris' plan overall better than Trump's, despite its many weaknesses"?  Have you controlled for the likelihood that they have other reasons to prefer Kamala to Trump?

Replies from: james-brown
comment by James Stephen Brown (james-brown) · 2024-11-08T17:52:55.936Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Hi notfnofn, thanks again for the well considered comment, and for responding to my edited response. I think you've made good points which have revealed clarifications I could have made within the post.

Okay Trump is president now. Hoping that things go well regardless.

Me too. And we'll see if the right-wing and online media's concern that Harris is an equal threat to democracy over the next couple of months. Because if she is an equal threat we shouldn't expect to see a peaceful transfer of power, like when Trump lost. Although, she has already graciously conceded as would be expected of any political candidate except Trump (who has continued to lie about the result of the 2020 election and require his followers and compatriots to do the same) due to the fact that he is held to a different standard. Obviously no one seriously expects Harris to lead an insurrection on the capitol, but they have been convinced that both-sides are equally dangerous, giving a permission structure to vote for Trump.

It's not necessarily that it was the worst issue, but the easiest target.

First of all, I am part of the majority that believe that trans-women shouldn't be competing the women's category in sport. It's dangerous, and undermines the integrity of the category due to the natural physical advantages of being born male, particularly on the extremes.

But my point is, as you say "it's not necessarily the worst issue" whereas the promise to "root out" the "enemy within" is the literally the worst issue. The radical left want to fight for the rights of trans-people in all areas, and unfortunately, I believe, have over-stepped in terms of sport—an entirely optional recreational activity of little to no consequence in my opinion. This is an issue that is adjudicated largely independently of government by international sports' bodies, and I hope that over time a fair and consistent ruling will prevail.

Rooting out the enemy within, on the other hand, is not even considered radical on the right, it's said out loud by a mainstream candidate with popular support. This is how far the centre has shifted.

I'm a bit concerned that you referred to cancel culture as "accountability culture"

I think this is a fair use of both-sidesism, if I'm going to use the loaded term 'cancel culture', I'm going to qualify that this is opposed by others who see this as 'accountability culture'. I'm a believer in the free market of ideas, and my support for this principle doesn't stop when a group of less powerful people collectively use their ideas to combat powerful individuals, I also think companies should be able to act so as to protect themselves from public backlash—I largely believe in free markets in general. Where there are instances of top-down cancelling, which as you mention happens on both sides, I'm opposed to this, and would happily call this cancel culture without qualification. But in my experience that's a small proportion of what people call "cancel culture".

Do you not see this as a false equivalence?—Yes...

Great.

Are you comparing the opinions of US politicians on the left with US politicians on the right?

I'm comparing activists on the left with activists on the right. Both the Democratic and Republican parties profess strong pro-Israel support.

How seriously have you investigated the claim that "Harris's plan is based on what many top economists think is best" and not "Economists find Harris' plan overall better than Trump's, despite its many weaknesses"?  Have you controlled for the likelihood that they have other reasons to prefer Kamala to Trump?

The first I'd heard of this was in the debate, as a claim of Harris' that Goldman Sachs and the Wharton School supported her plan, and that 16 Nobel laureates had said that Trump's plan would invite a recession and increase the deficit. This demonstrated her respect for those experts. Trump wasn't able to make any similar claims. Since then I have tried to understand more about tariffs, looking to the Wall St Journal and their explanation of Tariffs, Trump's own interview with John Micklethwait, where he claimed the room full of economists didn't understand tariffs, and this interview with The Economist Editor in Chief Zanny Minton Beddoes where she underscores the strength of Harris's plan relative to Trump's.

These are all respected, relatively right-leaning sources who all agree with Harris, and who's opinions are respected by Harris, as opposed to Trump who has shown disdain for the opinion of the majority of these experts, in favour of his own expertise, borne out of his experience going bankrupt 6 times. I expect that when developing their plans, this same respect for expertise was also at play. So, I think I've investigated this claim seriously enough to have a fair opinion on it.

I'd like to thank you again for this response. I believe you've raised important clarifications that I will consider making in the text itself. As you might know, this cross-posted from my blog, and the blog is actually a series of webpages that I edit continually comprising a growing philosophical framework, and I will likely attempt to make it more ever-green by relying less on a current event. Posting here helps guide my editing process by getting critical feedback from smart people like yourself, so I appreciate your time and efforts.

comment by Mr Frege · 2024-11-03T01:32:20.496Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Good arguments support some claim. Bad arguments provide little/no support. Some arguments are so bad that they support the opposite claim. This is one of those.

Replies from: Mr Frege
comment by Mr Frege · 2024-11-08T03:41:48.297Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

This comment received a lot of backlash. Admittedly, my comment wasn't as diplomatic as it might've been nor did I elaborate on my own reasoning. In my defence, I didn't think the original article was making much of an effort to get at the truth (see other criticisms above). Rather, it is a (very) one-sided account advocating that we should not consider the other side of the story (ie, it is an attack on both-sidesism).

The attack on both-sidesism is consistent with findings referenced in the video below. Both sides are prone to such anti-democratic behaviour, but the findings also suggest that one side is "slightly more willing to sacrifice democracy (by supporting actions that benefit their own party at the expense of democracy)". This might be a case in point.

Feel free to watch the whole thing, but the tldr part starts at 4:05.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVqjH6MaqRY

The events of Nov 6/7, 2024 might support the argument that the original argument was indeed self-defeating; ie, an argument against the argument against both-sidesism---effectively, an argument for both-sidesism.

Replies from: james-brown
comment by James Stephen Brown (james-brown) · 2024-11-08T22:58:45.869Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Thanks Mr Frege for clarifying your points. As I have mentioned (in other comments) I've conceded that I probably should have contextualised my own abandonment of both-sidesism before taking a partisan approach that makes my post appear more biased than it actually is, and probably colours the way it is read.

advocating that we should not consider the other side of the story

Okay, I definitely should have clarified that this is not my intention at all. Both-sidesism, as I'm referring to it, is creating a false equivalence between two issues and giving them equal weight regardless of their validity. I am strongly for considering the other side of the story. I think it is important to steel-man your opponent's position, and your comment has revealed that I failed to do this in the post. I should have made a clear case for both-sidesism further than merely stating that it is "well intentioned", before addressing the problems with it. Thank you for your feedback on those two points, which seem obvious to me in retrospect.

Both sides are prone to such anti-democratic behaviour, but the findings also suggest that one side is "slightly more willing to sacrifice democracy

This was interesting. It provides a counter to the Nature study referenced in the post, which makes sense when considering the different methodologies, specifically what they count as equally anti-democratic actions. I have some ideas about how one could interpret these results, but after writing them down they were pretty lengthy, and would invite a larger argument that I don't really have time for. I think the study provides an important lesson to learn—the danger of accusing your opponent of something leading to justifying your own doing of that very thing. This is something I've called negative moral licensing.

The events of Nov 6/7, 2024 might support the argument that the original argument was indeed self-defeating; ie, an argument against the argument against both-sidesism---effectively, an argument for both-sidesism.

I'm afraid I can't quite parse this point, I'm not sure if you're saying the election results support my post, or the contrary, and either way, I'm not sure why the result would support either position.

Thanks again for clarifying your points. As you will see I've taken on board a few of your points. Hopefully this has been a worthwhile interaction for you, it has for me. Happy to hear your thoughts on the negative moral licensing post if you get around to reading it.