If Ukraine fails, the world will reap fatal consequences

post by Danylo Zhyrko · 2024-03-05T19:42:00.789Z · LW · GW · 14 comments

Contents

14 comments

    This essay serves as a reminder of the ongoing war between Russia and Ukraine, which began in late February 2014 and escalated on February 24, 2022. The current situation at the frontline poses numerous challenges, with one of the most significant being ammunition starvation. President Zelenskyi highlighted this issue on February 26, 2024, stating that Ukraine had received less than a third of the one million artillery shells the European Union promised to deliver.

  Here, I am going to outline the potential outcomes of Ukraine's defeat may result in not only for Europe but also the world. This scenario becomes more plausible if the US and Europe do not supply it with a sufficient amount of ammunition, F16 jets, long-range weapons, ballistic missiles, battle tanks, and Bradley fighting vehicles to name but a few. In anticipation of European or US potential taxpayer discontent sounding like ‘Who has to carry all of this military aid financially?’, the true cost is borne by Ukrainians paying the highest price in the massive war, with their lives while no NATO or American combatant have died or been wounded, not including foreign volunteers.

  You, a reader, may ask me:

Why should the US and the EU supply Ukraine from their perspective?

Is the situation that Ukraine does not have Russian soldiers at its borders possible?

Is it expedient for Europe and the US to keep providing Ukraine with weapons if the war drags on for decades?

Why can’t Ukraine merely engage in negotiations with Russia?

What if Russia's actions in Ukraine are driven by a desire to protect Russian-speaking Ukrainians from what it perceives as the mayhem of Ukrainian authorities?

  This question aims to consider the situation from Russia's perspective. While the objectives of the so-called 'special military operation' are not clearly defined, dictator Putin has many times mentioned denazification, demilitarization of Ukraine, and the protection of Russian-speaking populations. However, if Russia did care about the well-being of the Russian-speaking Ukrainians, it would not

Moreover, even if Russia were to conquer Ukraine, it would face significant economic challenges in rebuilding grabbed and destroyed cities considering the current situation with the Russian economy, as Renaud Foucart, Senior Lecturer in Economics, writes.

  What is the actual drive of Russia in such a case?

  If Russia's special military operation is not aimed at protecting the rights of Russian-speaking people or preventing NATO expansion, what is the underlying reason for this war? The answer is a sense of superiority over the other nations and Ilyin and Dugin’s fascist ideology being nurtured in the Kremlin.

  If you think the hypothetical ideological preferences of the Kremlin elites is a dubious argument, I invite you to read Rashism or why russians are the new Nazi. It is a Vox Ukraine article where Vladlen Marayev, a Ukrainian historian, co-authored with Julia Bilyk, presented evidence for Russia being an actual fascist state, even though Ukrainians have been painted as neo-Nazis, Bandera-Nazis by Russian propaganda.

  List of arguments of why Russia is a Nazi dictatorship:

  However, what we have learned from dictatorship is that it takes immense human effort to dismantle it. Its collapse is not inevitable. There is no goodness in itself that will contribute to it.

  Help Ukraine enable the process and save as many lives as possible.

14 comments

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comment by Viliam · 2024-03-10T21:57:01.549Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

I agree with practically everything you wrote, but I think you chose a wrong website to publish this.

Not sure if I should explain -- I see that your account is new, but does it mean that you discovered this website now, or were you a passive reader for a long time and only registered an account to post this? Basically, it should be obvious that we don't do traditional political debates here.

Your style does not fit the audience. Generally, rhetorical techniques that are successful in other places, are often a weakness here. To give you an example:

If one country can use military force to cross borders unchallenged, what prevents others from doing the same?

I understand the spirit of the statement, but from the technical perspective, the simple answer is that what prevents most countries from doing the same is their lack of nukes.

Replies from: Danylo Zhyrko
comment by Danylo Zhyrko · 2024-03-11T19:50:58.091Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Thanks for your comment! You're right I was mostly a passive reader on LW. I tried to make the essay sound as logic and unbiased as I possible. If you could recommend any blogs or public online spaces where I could post my essays on situations about Ukraine and be heard, I'd be really pleased.

Concerning the question you referred to, I wish the rule of international law would prevent countries from invading one another rather lack of nukes. Ukraine took such a step to signal about its good intentions by swapping nuclear weapons for respect for its borders but the good intentions were nullified by Russia's invasion.

Replies from: Viliam
comment by Viliam · 2024-03-12T12:36:26.226Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

You could start your own blog on Substack, but then the problem will be how to find an audience. But posting a link somewhere in a comment section is easier than posting the entire article.

The international law is just a very thin layer on top of the "law of the jungle". Czechoslovakia also had all kinds of guarantees in 1938 and they also turned out not to be worth the paper they were written on.

comment by TheCookieLab · 2024-03-06T00:41:34.573Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Some of the worst, most egregious logic I’ve ever seen on this site, including this gem: “How can Russia be threatened when NATO says they are a purely defensive alliance??”

Replies from: Danylo Zhyrko
comment by Danylo Zhyrko · 2024-03-06T06:56:21.538Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

To be honest, I can't catch your take. It isn't transparent for me. If you could put it more straightforwardly, I'd be thankful. Russia exploits the narrative about NATO enlargement. But I can't see any evidence why NATO threatens Russia's security.

comment by Shankar Sivarajan (shankar-sivarajan) · 2024-03-06T02:16:43.774Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Russia is a Nazi dictatorship

In your view, what distinguishes a Nazi dictatorship from a regular one? 

Replies from: Forux, Danylo Zhyrko
comment by Forux · 2024-03-06T05:40:35.465Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

I think the idea is about the "Russian World". Putin and his elite used it almost always when trying to explain what they wanted to do. They always built their propaganda around "supreme russians" and other nations that "have no rights to exist".

comment by Danylo Zhyrko · 2024-03-06T07:10:32.989Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

It'd be more appropriate to call Russia a fascist state if we take Umberto Eco's criteria. Here's an article dealing with Eco's definition of fascism. I referred to Nazi dictatorship because of the article cited.

comment by CronoDAS · 2024-03-06T01:53:53.315Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

I do not necessarily agree with every claim made here, but I do agree that it would be best if the United States and Europe supply Ukraine with weapons and ammunition to the greatest extent possible. Besides voting Democrat in the next election, is there anything else that a random American with no significant political connections can do that would be useful?

Replies from: Danylo Zhyrko
comment by Danylo Zhyrko · 2024-03-06T10:46:46.006Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Besides voting Democrat (which is also valuable), you can spread the message of why it's necessary to stand for Ukraine. When communicated, the message may encounter someone who would make the difference. Secondly, you can donate to Come Back Alive Charity Foumdation or Serhiy Prytula Charity Foundation.

comment by Forux · 2024-03-06T05:50:15.978Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

The article's main idea is(can be?) that in all possible scenarios, the best one for Humanity is the loss of Putin's Empire.

It is hard to understand it without comparing it to the outcomes of all other scenarios. Because in each scenario after the start of a full-scale invasion, all scenarios are massive devastation for Humanity - we can choose only less devastation among all.

comment by sflicht · 2024-03-06T00:37:14.371Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

On February 25, 2024, President Zelenskyi revealed that the Ukrainian losses had amounted to 31,000, while there have been 180,000 Russian soldiers killed.

Do you have any reason to believe these figures are accurate?

Replies from: Shannar
comment by Shannar · 2024-03-06T07:03:28.229Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Perhaps we will know the true figures after the end of the war, but approximate non-official calculations show that in Ukraine the losses are much higher, about 180-200 thousand. And the losses are more like 1 to 2.

Replies from: Forux
comment by Forux · 2024-03-06T09:54:33.145Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Can you please provide analysis where Ukraine side losses are 200k people and Russia side are 400k people?