Logging progress improving conscientiousness and overcoming procrastination at LessWrong

post by ChrisHallquist · 2012-07-19T04:35:12.461Z · LW · GW · Legacy · 17 comments

I've recently been thinking a lot about working on items in Luke's article How to Be Happy. Here's one in particular I've struggled with a long time:

Improve your conscientiousness. Conscientiousness involves a variety of tendencies: useful organization, strong work ethic, reliability, planning ahead, etc. Each of these individual skills can be learned. The techniques for overcoming procrastination are useful, here. Some people report that books like Getting Things Done have helped them become more organized and reliable.

I particularly want to work on avoiding procrastination. I've tried several techniques for avoiding procrastination, but I always seem to relapse away from using them. But I've heard that you're more likely to stick with a plan if you log your progress in a place other people can see. That's what I plan to do in this thread. I encourage others to use it for the same purpose.

I'm not sure how to best exploit LessWrong for this purpose. Tentatively I plan to come back weekly and post comments on my progress, though suggestions for better ways to do this are welcome.

This thread can also serve as a place for sharing information on what techniques for approving conscientiousness, not procrastinating, etc. have worked and not worked for people in the LessWrong community.

Over the next week, I plan on specifically focusing on implementing kalla724's advice on attention control, which worked when I first tried it but I've fallen away from using. I also plan on trying to make better use of productivity-related browser plugins like Delayed Gratification.

And again, advice on how to tweak this project greatly appreciated.

17 comments

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comment by John_Maxwell (John_Maxwell_IV) · 2012-07-19T04:54:11.358Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

I've tried several techniques for avoiding procrastination, but I always seem to relapse away from using them.

"I've tried using several coffee filters, but they always seem to get filled up with this dark residue and become unusable."

What if the best way to think about anti-procrastination techniques is the same way we think about coffee filters? When a we stop using a technique, we think of that as a failure. But maybe we should think of it as a success, in proportion to how long the technique was useful and how much it improved our effectiveness. Instead of thinking "darn, back to procrastinating again", maybe we should be thinking "hey, that was a pretty good run".

Another idea: Make a spaced repetition card where the front of the card describes a situation and the back of the card describes something (e.g. the attentional control technique) that you want yourself to apply in that situation. Whenever the card comes up in your SR software, give it a rating based on how well you've been remembering to apply the technique.

Some meta-cards to start with:

  • Format is front of card / back of card

  • The alarm on your cell phone rings at 9 PM / I'll study my SR cards or set a timer reminding myself to do it later

  • You notice yourself remembering about a card / I'll reward myself (with an internal compliment, etc.)

  • You notice yourself completing the response associated with a card / I'll reward myself

  • You are studying these cards / I'll pay attention, a la kalla724, to amplify the effectiveness of my studying

It's really cool how well making these cards works compared to just saying "I should really do x". I think of it as like Soviet propaganda beaming commands in to my head. If I forget one of my cards, I don't beat myself up, I just figure I'll wait a while and hopefully the propaganda will work its magic.

Replies from: ChrisHallquist
comment by ChrisHallquist · 2012-07-20T04:34:10.299Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

You seem to assume I have spaced repetition software. Link to spaced repetition software 101?

Replies from: John_Maxwell_IV
comment by pjeby · 2012-07-19T21:34:21.713Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

I've tried several techniques for avoiding procrastination, but I always seem to relapse away from using them.

This is something that used to confuse me terribly: why would people who find techniques that work for them, stop using them? For a while, I operated under an assumption that this was some sort of homeostasis, whereby people work to maintain a certain level of success (or lack thereof) and thus avoid things that would alter their level.

Then I realized that that isn't really an explanation of meta-akrasia, or at any rate, not a reduction of it.

The reduction is much easier to understand: people stop using anti-akrasia techniques because their use is not being reinforced.

This is a little counter-intuitive, and so my missing it initially is understandable: I assumed that a technique working should be reinforcement enough!

The problem is, an anti-akrasia technique is only positively reinforcing when you were expecting to fail, so then it feels positive by contrast. Once you're used to it, it no longer seems surprisingly positive, so the only actual reinforcement you get is performing whatever task you were putting off.

And if that task were something you found reinforcing, you'd not need the anti-akrasia technique in the first place!

So, in the long run, anti-akrasia techniques are self-extinguishing, unless they involve some sort of reinforcement, ideally one that arises naturally. (i.e., doesn't require you to do some extra behavior in order to make sure you're reinforced, which behavior must then also be reinforced.)

In other words, chasing anti-akrasic techniques is something of a dead end, if they don't affect how you reinforce yourself for the actual behavior. Because, if an "ugh field" surrounds the behavior, it will tend to spread to poison the anti-akrasia technique.

(Paradoxically, this means that people are slightly more likely to stick with unhelpful anti-akrasia techniques for longer than they do with ones that actually work, because the ones that work, quickly become negatively reinforcing. Presumably, the most reinforcing techniques will be ones that work sometimes, or appear to.)

Anyway, this means there are only two kinds of sustainable anti-akrasia tactics:

  1. Those that provide a source of reward, either provided internally or externally, for the technique and the thing you're avoiding, OR
  2. Those that alter your self-reinforcement for the task, so that you no longer desire to put it off.

Personally, I prefer the latter type, as I don't really know of many ways to do the former. Mostly, it seems that such methods require some sort of social support.... which brings us right back to:

But I've heard that you're more likely to stick with a plan if you log your progress in a place other people can see.

So, I would say that this will work as long as you find the attention reinforcing at the time you perform the task, not at the time when you log your progress. If, when you start a task, you feel good about being able to later log the progress, this is likely to be reinforcing at the right moment. If you wait until you have enough done to make a good report, you will probably burn out on the actual writing of the log as well.

Replies from: gwern
comment by gwern · 2012-07-20T14:49:20.683Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

I just ran into http://eshock.blog.com/ which seems like almost the perfect example: outright negative reinforcement, which he admits has wound up training him to not use it:

To recap the last 12 days: Things worked out for me, but not as well as they should. I didn’t use the device anymore. I had to manage certain important things besides just working and that sort of throwed me out of my routine or made me fall back to old methods. I also highly suspect that I have not been using the device anymore because I trained myself to avoid it (because it is painful). Some superficial reasons exists, such as broken bluetooth kernel drivers, that attributed to the lack of usage....You might just avoid or stop using it without your consent, as part of a negative reinforcement learning curve...Very quickly you will have difficulties to ‘push the trigger’ initially. You can only apply light to medium shocks, because it quickly becomes near-impossible to you to expose yourself to shocks that are too painful (you literally become incapable of pushing the trigger or just bearing with it)

comment by RomeoStevens · 2012-07-19T21:28:52.248Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Humans tend to be the average of whatever they are surrounded with. So "surround" yourself with viewpoints that are for whatever behavior you're trying to instill in yourself. When I wanted to start flossing I immersed myself in the scientific literature on flossing benefits. Sure I knew flossing was good for me, but how much? Where were the actual studies so I could review the methodology and quantify the benefits? I did this until not flossing seemed completely ridiculous.

I only realized what I was doing to myself after doing this many times for different things. I eventually realized that I can't force myself to do anything. When I resist doing something it's because some part of me isn't totally convinced it is a good idea to do.

comment by Oscar_Cunningham · 2012-07-19T11:09:31.335Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

I had some luck with "attention control" a while back. It 's since mysteriously stopped working, like all these things. I'm now trying to reimplement it. Also, monoidealism just caught my attention.

One of my main problems is not having enough routine. I can't possibly be in the habit of always doing spaced repetition after lunch, for example, because half the time I'll be busy doing something else, or on a train without internet, etc.

comment by vallinder · 2012-07-19T06:49:25.414Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Have you tried Beeminder for logging progress?

Replies from: ChrisHallquist
comment by ChrisHallquist · 2012-07-20T04:37:50.566Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

That would require some way to quantify progress. Thoughts on how to do that?

Replies from: vallinder
comment by vallinder · 2012-07-20T07:04:46.161Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

You could estimate the amount of time spent procrastinating. If you're at a computer, RescueTime or similar software might help you do that. You could also try to count how often you feel like procrastinating, and how often you actually do procrastinate. Of course, this might be tricky to do accurately.

Replies from: ChrisHallquist
comment by ChrisHallquist · 2012-07-22T10:39:12.464Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Just installed Rescue Time, looks like an awesome program.

comment by Xachariah · 2012-07-19T10:26:24.215Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

You may also be interested in the group rationality diary. It is a bit late this week, but you might benefit from more people to sharing at the same time as a ritual rather than a doing it yourself (and being tempted to relapse from the habit of posting your logs).

Replies from: ChrisHallquist
comment by ChrisHallquist · 2012-07-20T04:37:15.700Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Thanks, this is a good idea. If for some reason the person who is posting these is having trouble remembering to post them on time, I'd even be happy to take them over.

Actually... explain this to me. Why isn't there just an informal agreement, "if you notice one is late, take it over, but always check to make sure it was really missed so you don't duplicate a given week's efforts"?

comment by swallowtail · 2012-11-13T22:52:02.105Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Have you found that you are able to monitor your progress adequately with the tools that have been suggested? I have a very similar problem managing time independently, however I have always tried to create my own time management systems. They tend to fall apart at the seams. I would be interested to know if you were having success, or if you have found a forum to log your progress.

comment by tut · 2012-07-30T16:25:05.448Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

...you're more likely to stick with a plan if you log your progress...

Kelly McGonigal disagrees.

I couldn't find what minute it's at, but if you haven't watched it you might like to do so.

Replies from: PepperToni