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comment by Gordon Seidoh Worley (gworley) · 2024-06-17T17:55:17.859Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Victory is instrumental.

Something seems off to me about this view, and by off I mean it sounds like nonsense to me.

What's pinging for me is that I take "victory" to mean successfully getting what you want, and I would take this to not just be shallowly getting what you want, but deeply getting it by getting it in the way you want to get it and without any undesirably side effects. Thus there's no real sense to me in which it makes sense to say that victory is instrumental because it's the ideal state of getting your desires met.

My read is that you're trying to say something like victory only matters if it's achieved by endorsed means, but that doesn't mean victory is instrumental, only that it's incomplete if achieved the wrong way.

comment by Viliam · 2024-06-17T15:34:24.979Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

"The art of becoming legibly correct."

I like this, but when you put it this way, I notice that "legibly" is to some degree subjective. The same process may be called rational by some and irrational by others, depending on whether they can read your reasoning.

comment by Tapatakt · 2024-06-17T16:11:49.434Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Rationality (epistemic): The collection of techniques[1] that help to obtain the (more) correct model of the world from observations.

Rationality (instrumental): The collection of techniques that help to achieve goals in most environments. This collection includes most of epistemc rationality, because to know in what environment you are is often useful.

Rationality (what people usually mean): The stuff The Sequences and Thinking, Fast and Slow is about. Arguably, the most useful meaning of the three.

  1. ^

    Or the property of an agent that it uses these techniques. Different types, but isomorphic enough so I propose implicit conversion.