How sci-fi can have drama without dystopia or doomerism
post by jasoncrawford · 2025-01-17T15:22:00.414Z · LW · GW · 3 commentsThis is a link post for https://newsletter.rootsofprogress.org/p/sci-fi-without-dystopia
Contents
3 comments
“But you can’t have a story where everyone is happy and everything is perfect! Stories need conflict!”
I get this a lot in response to my idea that we need fewer dystopias in sci-fi, and more visions of a future we actually want to live in and are inspired to build.
The objection makes no sense to me. Here are several ways that you can write a compelling, exciting story without implying that technology makes the world worse on the whole, or that the main feature of new technology is doom:
- Tell a man vs. nature story. Seveneves, The Martian, Hail Mary, Lucifer’s Hammer. There’s no villain necessarily, just a disaster situation that people have to overcome using brains and technology. Or tell a tale of exploration and discovery, such as space travelers encountering a strange new planet (much of Star Trek).
- Tell a story about discovery or invention. There can be a lot of drama in R&D, especially if you montage through the daily grind of experiments and highlight the breakthroughs. But this kind of story is almost never told—I don’t know why, maybe because writers don’t know anything about these processes, or don’t know how to make them interesting. But I think it can totally be done. Why not put on the silver screen the moment when Norman Borlaug strapped a plow to his own back and pulled it like a draft animal, or when Gerhard Domagk used the antibiotics he had just developed to save his own six-year-old daughter from an infection? (See also Anton Howes’s comments on movies about invention.)
- Have the heroes be the builders who want to move technology forward, and the villains be those who want to stop them. We’ve had an endless series of greedy corporate villains; why not a few more Malthusian villains like Thanos, radical anti-human environmentalists like Ra’s al Ghul, or religious fanatics like the group from Contact?
- Tell a story of a classic human conflict, but set in a futuristic world. The Quantum Thief is in part a detective story, set on Mars with nanotech and advanced cryptography. The Moon is a Harsh Mistress is a political epic of oppression and revolution, set on the Moon with AI and advanced space technology.
- Create a problem with technology, and then solve it with technology. Maybe rogue AI tries to take over the world, and good AI helps prevent it. Maybe nanobots turn into gray goo, and a nanophage is invented to stop it. Maybe a new pandemic escapes from a lab, and genetic technology creates the vaccine for it (far-fetched, I know!)
- Create conflict over good vs. evil uses of technology. Maybe the good guys are inventing a new energy source, or AI, or biotech, and the bad guys want to steal it to use it as a weapon. Or, depending on your worldview, maybe the good guys are making a weapon to make the world safe for democracy, and the bad guys want to steal the weapon for their oppressive totalitarian dictatorship. In either case, this kind of story could inspire better opsec in AI and bio labs!
- Create conflict between a utopian world, and another civilization that is less than utopian. This theme comes up in the Culture novels and, again, in Star Trek. How might these civilizations interact? Could they understand each other? Could they engage peacefully? Should technologically advanced civilizations obey the Prime Directive?
- Explore the social implications of technological changes. What kinds of human drama will arise when we cure aging, and the older generation doesn’t die off to make way for the younger? Or what if some people are seeking immortality by transferring their consciousness to robot bodies or digital worlds, while other people think that this is suicide? (Anwar) What controversies will emerge over the growing practice of embryo selection? (Gattaca) What happens when people start falling in love with AIs? (Her) What if society decides that AI is sentient and deserves legal rights? One variant of this is “utopia’s losers”: in a utopia, who doesn’t fit in? In a happy future, who is unhappy?
(As a side note, even the standard “robot rebellion” story would be much more interesting if there were abolitionist humans who joined the robot side, and perhaps even traditionalist robots who wanted to keep their place as servants. The same is true for stories of first contact with aliens: rather than a straightforward human-vs.-alien war, you could have some humans and some aliens who want peace, others on both sides who are trying to foment war, and some traitors or crossovers from each side who go to help the other. Exploring all of their ideologies and motivations would be much more interesting than yet another war of the worlds. There was a bit of this in The Three Body Problem, which is one of the reasons I liked it, despite my problems with its theme.)
The opposite of dystopia isn’t utopia—which doesn’t exist. It’s “protopia”: a world that is always getting better, but is never perfect. Such a world always has new problems to solve, including some problems created by the old solutions. There is plenty of conflict and intrigue in such a world, and plenty of room for heroes and villains.
Thanks to Hannu Rajaniemi and Fawaz Al-Matrouk for commenting on a draft of this essay.
3 comments
Comments sorted by top scores.
comment by Raemon · 2025-01-17T18:39:08.681Z · LW(p) · GW(p)
Whenever this comes up, I note: I think this is only a problem for a certain kind of nerd/geek who wants particularly intense stakes.
Sitcoms, soap operas have plenty of interesting stories that are mostly about low-stakes interpersonal drama.
(I guess this cached annoyance of mine is more about people complaining about utopian fiction rather than science fiction. But I think the same principles apply)
comment by Dagon · 2025-01-18T00:08:44.438Z · LW(p) · GW(p)
I'm confused. You start with
“But you can’t have a story where everyone is happy and everything is perfect! Stories need conflict!”
And then list a bunch of conflicts. David Mamet's three rules are:
- Who wants what from whom
- What happens if they don’t get it
- Why now
And all of your examples are fair places to answer these. I think we don't actually disagree, but I'm not sure I understand the objection you're responding to. Did someone actually say "there's no tension without dystopia"? If they only said "dystopia is the lazy person's generator of fictional tension", then I kind of agree.
comment by CstineSublime · 2025-01-18T03:24:35.511Z · LW(p) · GW(p)
Stanley Kubrick is perhaps one of the most influential Sci-Fi filmmakers of the 20th century, therefore I believe he has some authority on this matter. What may answer the need for dystopia can be extend to war and crime films:
...one of the attractions of a war or crime story is that it provides an almost unique opportunity to contrast an individual of our contemporary society with a solid framework of accepted value, which the audience becomes fully aware of, and which can be used as a counterpoint to a human, individual, emotional situation. Further, war acts as a kind of hothouse for forced, quick breeding of attitudes and feelings. Attitudes crystallize and come out into the open. Conflict is natural, when it would in a less critical situation have to be introduced almost as a contrivance, and would thus appear forced, or - even worse - false. Eisenstein, in his theoretical writings about dramatic structure, was often guilty of oversimplification. The black and white contrasts of Alexander Nevsky do not fit all drama. But war does permit this basic kind of contrast - and spectacle. And within these contrasts you can begin to apply some of the possibilities of film - of the sort explored by Eisenstein."
https://www.archiviokubrick.it/english/words/interviews/1959independence.html
More specifically he explains the way he believes Speculative Fictional genres, such as fantasy and Sci-Fi can be effective towards expressing certain ideas which realist drama - the kinds you're advocating albeit within a Sci-Fi environment - may not be. Interviews taken from these transcripts: http://visual-memory.co.uk/amk/doc/interview.html
Michel Ciment: You are a person who uses his rationality, who enjoys understanding things, but in2001: A Space Odyssey and The Shining you demonstrate the limits of intellectual knowledge. Is this an acknowledgement of what William James called the unexplained residues of human experience?
Stanley Kubrick: Obviously, science-fiction and the supernatural bring you very quickly to the limits of knowledge and rational explanation. But from a dramatic point of view, you must ask yourself: 'If all of this were unquestionably true, how would it really happen?' You can't go much further than that. I like the regions of fantasy where reason is used primarily to undermine incredulity. Reason can take you to the border of these areas, but from there on you can be guided only by your imagination. I think we strain at the limits of reason and enjoy the temporary sense of freedom which we gain by such exercises of our imagination.
Michel Ciment: Don't you think that today it is in this sort of popular literature that you find strong archetypes, symbolic images which have vanished somehow from the more highbrow literary works?
Stanley Kubrick: Yes, I do, and I think that it's part of their often phenomenal success. There is no doubt that a good story has always mattered, and the great novelists have generally built their work around strong plots. But I've never been able to decide whether the plot is just a way of keeping people's attention while you do everything else, or whether the plot is really more important than anything else, perhaps communicating with us on an unconscious level which affects us in the way that myths once did. I think, in some ways, the conventions of realistic fiction and drama may impose serious limitations on a story. For one thing, if you play by the rules and respect the preparation and pace required to establish realism, it takes a lot longer to make a point than it does, say, in fantasy. At the same time, it is possible that this very work that contributes to a story's realism may weaken its grip on the unconscious. Realism is probably the best way to dramatize argument and ideas. Fantasy may deal best with themes which lie primarily in the unconscious. I think the unconscious appeal of a ghost story, for instance, lies in its promise of immortality. If you can be frightened by a ghost story, then you must accept the possibility that supernatural beings exist. If they do, then there is more than just oblivion waiting beyond the grave.
And to finish, I can't the source at the moment (I think it was in "A Life in Pictures"), but it is like Jack Nicholson said of Kubrick "then someone like Stanley comes along and asks: it's realistic, but is it interesting?".
A dystopia provides a background, a framework that allows a highly catalytic environment for dramatizing ideas that cannot be done by means of regular small stakes interpersonal conflict. Even Plato knew this with regards to pedagogy: hence why his Socrates suggested like the way you use big handwriting to make a manuscript more visible, he expanded the vision of justice in one single person to the entire polis.