LW/ACX Saturday (6/24/23) Effective Woo and the Insignificance of Statistics

post by Michael Michalchik (michael-michalchik) · 2023-06-24T00:06:08.946Z · ? · GW · 0 comments

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LW/ACX Saturday (6/24/23) Effective Woo and the Insignificance of Statistics


 

Hello Folks!

We are excited to announce the 31st Orange County ACX/LW meetup, happening this Saturday and most Saturdays thereafter.


 

Host: Michael Michalchik

Email: michaelmichalchik@gmail.com (For questions or requests)

Location: 1970 Port Laurent Place, Newport Beach, CA 92660

Date: Saturday, June 24, 2023

Time: 2 PM

Conversation Starters (repeat):


 

  1. Text: Are Woo Non-Responders Defective? - by Scott Alexander Audio: https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/sscpodcast/Are_Woo_Non-Responders_Defective.mp3?dest-id=586545
  2. Text: All Medications Are Insignificant In The Eyes Of God And Traditional Effect Size Criteria Audio: https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/all-medications-are-insignificant-in-the-eyes-of/id1295289140?i=1000615600863
  3. Follow Up: Attempts To Put Statistics In Context, Put Into Context Audio: https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/sscpodcast/Attempts_To_Put_Statistics_In_Context_Put_Into_Context.mp3?dest-id=586545



 

C) Card Game: Predictably Irrational - Feel free to bring your favorite games or distractions.

D) Walk & Talk: We usually have an hour-long walk and talk after the meeting starts. Two mini-malls with hot takeout food are easily accessible nearby. Search for Gelson's or Pavilions in the zip code 92660.

E) Share a Surprise: Tell the group about something unexpected or that changed your perspective on the universe.

F) Future Direction Ideas: Contribute ideas for the group's future direction, including topics, meeting types, activities, etc.



 

  1. Do you think the standard thresholds for "clinically significant" effect sizes are useful in evaluating the effectiveness of a medication? Why or why not?
  2. Considering that many commonly used medications have effect sizes around or below 0.30, does this change your perspective on what makes a treatment effective?
  3. The first article suggests that individual responses to treatment and real-world experiences should be considered more heavily when assessing a medication's effectiveness. How do you think this could be done in a systematic and scientifically rigorous way?
  4. The placebo effect seems to play a significant role in depression trials. How should this be accounted for when evaluating the effectiveness of antidepressants?
  5. What do you think about the suggestion made in the comments section that an effect size of 0.30 could be seen as curing roughly 30% of patients?
  6. Given the complexities and potential biases involved in measuring and interpreting effect sizes, how do you think we should present this information to patients to support them in making informed decisions about their treatment options?


 



1. Considering the critique of "woo" practices as a distraction or an illusion of solution, are there other widespread wellness or therapeutic practices that could potentially fall under the same critique? 


 

2. How might our societal norms and values around mental and physical health have influenced our acceptance or rejection of certain "woo" practices? Are we biased in favor of certain approaches due to cultural or societal conditioning?


 

3. The author presents four possible scenarios to explain the effectiveness (or lack thereof) of "woo" practices. In all four, trauma plays a role. How does the presence of trauma shape our understanding of mental health and the value of different treatments?


 

4. If "woo" practices are indeed a coping mechanism, as suggested in some of the scenarios, do they have the potential to reinforce negative feedback loops, making the underlying mental health issues worse in the long run? 


 

5. In a world that's becoming increasingly data-driven, how do we reckon with practices that don't lend themselves to empirical scrutiny or standard scientific methods of validation, like many "woo" practices? How do we balance the need for evidence-based approaches with respecting individual experiences that can't be easily quantified or measured?


 

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