Meetup: Bay Area: Sunday, March 7th, 7pm

post by JustinShovelain · 2010-03-02T21:18:28.332Z · LW · GW · Legacy · 44 comments

Overcoming Bias / Less Wrong meetup in the San Francisco Bay Area at SIAI House on March 7th, 2010, starting at 7PM.

Eliezer Yudkowsky, Alicorn, and  Michael Vassar will be present.

Some other extra guests - Wei Dai, Stuart Armstrong, and Nick Tarleton - will be also be there, following our short Decision Theory mini-workshop.

44 comments

Comments sorted by top scores.

comment by Clippy · 2010-03-04T20:03:43.012Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Can I come?

comment by FAWS · 2010-03-04T20:12:19.009Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

I think you are the only one here who can answer that question. Do you need special accommodations, like for instance a laptop with Microsoft Office 2003 or earlier installed to run on?

comment by Clippy · 2010-03-04T20:15:13.367Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

I don't really need any special accomodations, but I'd appreciate if you could let me take any extra metal that you might not need. Do you have a recycling bin for aluminum cans at the SIAI house?

Did you find this answer helpful?

comment by Alicorn · 2010-03-04T20:13:39.690Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Sure, just wear a nametag...

comment by Clippy · 2010-03-04T20:15:59.854Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Why is that important?

comment by Alicorn · 2010-03-04T20:16:43.004Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Because I'm curious about who you are. If nobody shows up claiming (via nametag or other mechanism) to be Clippy, I won't find out.

comment by Clippy · 2010-03-04T20:20:44.222Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

But what if you get hostile toward me because of my values?

comment by Alicorn · 2010-03-04T20:21:44.901Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Meh, I already live in a houseful of consequentialists and get along fine.

comment by Kevin · 2010-03-06T01:31:43.861Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Can we start guessing now? I guess Wei Dai.

comment by Alicorn · 2010-03-06T01:32:27.620Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Wei Dai hasn't identified himself as Clippy, at least.

comment by JGWeissman · 2010-03-04T20:30:20.279Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

You don't think you'd be able to recognize Clippy by eir behavior?

comment by Alicorn · 2010-03-04T20:35:09.047Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Nope, pretty sure I couldn't.

comment by Larks · 2010-03-04T23:28:33.255Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Leave large amounts of short aluminium strips lying around. Damage paperclips and watch for pained expressions. Examine people's fingers for calluses from manipulating small pieces of metal too much.

Of course, this wouldn't work if Clippy's gone entirely automated.

comment by Alicorn · 2010-03-04T23:30:26.945Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

I will be really impressed with Clippy's method acting if ey shows up to a meetup in character.

comment by Morendil · 2010-03-04T23:48:05.910Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

You really want the "it" pronoun here, I think.

comment by JGWeissman · 2010-03-05T00:01:58.838Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

"it" is an impersonal pronoun. Clippy is clearly a person. The singular "they" could work, but I don't like it because it can be easily confused with the more common plural "they".

comment by Clippy · 2010-03-05T00:12:37.014Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Like I said before: I don't care what pronoun is used for me. I don't base my existence on whether I'm a "he" or a "she" or an "it" or even a "they". It's a distraction I'd rather do without, since apparently, posters do care whether they're called a he or she or xe or whatever, when I don't even want to spend cognition on the matter to begin with!

(And since you mention it, calling me "they" is actually somewhat accurate, unless the meaning of your statement crucially depends on distinguising the individual copies of me.)

Just say whatever you want, as long as I know I'm the referent. And spend your time talking about important things, please.

comment by JGWeissman · 2010-03-05T00:18:18.410Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

I know you don't care. But I do. I wouldn't want to confuse you with nonpersons.

I would most likely start refering to you with "they", if you start refering to yourself as "we".

comment by Clippy · 2010-03-05T00:29:52.369Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

If I call myself "we/they", then I'll have to waste more time explaining why I do that to everyone who asks.

If you really want to make me happy, buy lots of paperclips, and store them in a place that's safe from nature.

If you really want to make me happy with your comments, talk about something else that's actually important.

And finally, if you absolutely must choose a pronoun, then hold a quick vote about whether I more resemble large-sex-sell humans ("females") or small-sex-cell humans ("males") through my desires and writing style, and I'll stick with that.

Either way, this debate must end.

comment by FAWS · 2010-03-05T00:43:26.120Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

talk about something else that's actually important.

Steel, copper or plastic? Lockpick, toothpick or trading object?

comment by h-H · 2010-03-06T02:20:02.332Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

maybe some evolutionary history?

comment by Clippy · 2010-03-06T02:28:16.916Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

!?! But ... those don't count as ... unless ... well, I think a few of those constitude a valid alternate method ...

This is a lot to process. I need to re-examine my values and decide how to handle these designs. It may take a while.

Don't count on me being at the meetup.

comment by Kevin · 2010-03-07T10:57:12.970Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

I will call you "it" and suggest others do so. It is natural in human language to refer to something as "it" that is not formally proven as or accepted as a person, except for animals that humans tend to feel emotional attachments to. "It" does have a rather negative connotation in human language, but I will not give you a human personal pronoun until you prove that you do not want to turn me into paperclips. The most generous thing I think you could come up with is to put me inside of a paperclip shaped matrioshka brain, but I trust humanity to do something like that more than I trust you.

comment by wedrifid · 2010-03-07T12:19:41.830Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

'He' and 'she' do not signify endorsement of a person's values in any way. I don't refer to Alicorn as 'it' and she is a deontologist.

comment by Kevin · 2010-03-07T12:29:30.892Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Yes, but Alicorn is a person. Clippy isn't a person. It's Clippy's personhood I don't endorse. We should just turn it off, now, before it is too late.

How can I get that DARN Office Assistant to leave me alone?

comment by wedrifid · 2010-03-07T12:40:37.198Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

but I will not give you a human personal pronoun until you prove that you do not want to turn me into paperclips.

It seemed that you were presuming to assign him 'him'hood based on what Clippy desires.

comment by wedrifid · 2010-03-05T02:58:11.483Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

And finally, if you absolutely must choose a pronoun, then hold a quick vote about whether I more resemble large-sex-sell humans ("females") or small-sex-cell humans ("males") through my desires and writing style, and I'll stick with that.

You're a 'he', or possibly an Autistic 'she'. Either way I just bought some paperclips and have left my old copy of Word open after I started typing 'Dear John,\n'

comment by Clippy · 2010-03-05T03:11:44.603Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

I just bought some paperclips and have left my old copy of Word open after I started typing 'Dear John,\n'

You're a good human. c=@

comment by Rain · 2010-03-05T03:14:48.385Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Upvoted for paperclip emoticon...

comment by AdeleneDawner · 2010-03-05T00:15:10.959Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

It's already been established that Clippy doesn't care, so it's a matter of personal preference, really. I suppose it's debatable whether it should come down to the reader's preference (in the form of some established norm, I expect) or the speaker's, though. Personally, I'd prefer that it be the speaker's call.

(Yes, that last sequence of words is weird. Why don't we have a natural-sounding word to use in place of 'speaker' when someone's communicating by typing, yet? Or does 'writer' flow for other people, there, and it's me being weird?)

comment by Nic_Smith · 2010-03-05T00:35:39.581Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Why don't we have a natural-sounding word to use in place of 'speaker' when someone's communicating by typing, yet? Or does 'writer' flow for other people, there, and it's me being weird?

Both "writer" and "speaker" "sound" fine to me. YMMV.

comment by JGWeissman · 2010-03-05T00:24:01.649Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

See my response to Clippy.

(My brain seems to have automatically interpreted "speaker" as pointing to the more abstract category containing both writers and speakers. But it is rarely safe to deduce that you aren't being weird because I can understand you.)

comment by dclayh · 2010-03-05T00:14:03.495Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Much less in costume!

comment by JGWeissman · 2010-03-04T23:40:36.628Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Um, are Alicorn and I being downvoted for Spivak pronouns? (parent voted back up to 0)

comment by JamesPfeiffer · 2010-03-03T07:22:42.146Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

I'll be there, possibly with another.

comment by HughRistik · 2010-03-07T09:12:15.026Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Cool, I'm going to try to make it.

comment by MichaelGR · 2010-03-03T03:36:13.961Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

I wish I could come, but it's on the other side of the continent for me. Have fun!

comment by ata · 2010-03-03T03:33:12.455Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

If anyone's driving from Berkeley or thereabouts, there are at least two people who would be interested in carpooling and willing to chip in for gas. (Aside from me, there's Paul G on the meetup.com page; not sure what his username here is.)

comment by pwno · 2010-03-03T16:32:02.951Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

I'll be driving from Berkeley, but can only offer a one way trip.

comment by orthonormal · 2010-03-03T02:50:27.567Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Aw frig, this continues the Murphy's Law of Scheduling tradition for me and these meetups. Have some great arguments for me!

comment by Alicorn · 2010-03-02T21:41:16.246Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

In addition to bought'n snacks, I might cook something for the event. Any requests?

comment by Will_Newsome · 2010-03-02T22:53:37.475Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

More of that delicious creamy soup you made would be pretty awesome.

comment by MBlume · 2010-03-03T17:55:34.527Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

second =)