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Comment by Steve M (steve-m-2) on On AI personhood · 2025-04-18T11:36:42.299Z · LW · GW

At the risk of nitpicking around labels, while I see what you're getting at, consciousness and personhood are two different things in a qualitatively meaningful sense.

Consciousness is a vague term, kind of like the "soul", which there is not uniform agreement around. Philosophically it may be important, but pragmatically it's not very useful.

Personhood on the other hand is, at least in the realm of the law, a pragmatically important label. It features heavily in issues like corporate liability, abortion laws, and the citizenship prospects bestowed onto individuals. And it rarely touches on issues of consciousness.

So just encouraging you to keep those separate.

Comment by Steve M (steve-m-2) on The Lizardman and the Black Hat Bobcat · 2025-04-07T13:21:41.306Z · LW · GW

The less believable it is that something which is the subject of a complaint could have happened accidentally, the more you need to hear that complaint repeated to believe it.

In your example of BHB's Ebay page which otherwise has a sterling rating, if he intentionally doesn't send some components with the chair (to save costs or something) and the buyer complains of missing parts, nobody will dismiss that as obviously bogus. Just a screw up.

What about things which are less likely to have happened as an accident?

If BHB sends a chair minus a few components. - Generally believable, probably chalked up to a mistake, but still a (very minor) black mark on BHB's record to any prospective buyers checking them out based on reviews. I think I'd believe this happened with one report.

If BHB sends a cheaper chair model. - Somewhat believable, still likely to be chalked up to a logistical mistake but could also be someone trying to scam a refund. I run an ecommerce site and have had things like this happen to us. The review might or might not be held against BHB buy a prospective buyer (as an example of incompetence they don't want to deal with). I'd probably believe one report but be a little skeptical, two would immediately make it believable.

If BHB sends a pizza. - We're getting into "This report seems bogus" territory now, where the only people who would believe it would be the ones willing to believe BHB might have done it maliciously. I'd probably need to see three reports, otherwise I'd think it was someone making multiple accounts to troll this one seller.

If BHB sends a Bobcat. - A Bobcat is hard to get in the first place, even people willing to entertain the concept of BHB being malicious wouldn't usually believe this report without multiple examples. "That report is obviously a troll." Even if I saw like ten reports, I'd still wonder if this was just 4chan doing some new meme raid or something. It would only be if the authorities took notice and confirmed it or there was some sort of evidence, or if there was a report from someone I knew was trustworthy, that I would really believe it.