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comment by the gears to ascension (lahwran) · 2024-03-18T19:49:47.427Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

please read the post the amount that you choose to, however much that is, before reading my review.

my review may bias you.

this seems kinda badly written. single downvote from me. also rather rambly. I dumped it in a summarizer and might agree with some parts of it in principle, but I think I have pretty deep disagreements. what of powerseeking people, organizations, and other life forms? what of powerseeking nonhuman ais? okay, you don't think those are a danger. well, sure, then just what of powerseeking people and orgs then. seems like much of the problem you're identifying is just consequences of powerseeking life forms...

anyway, because of the rambly, I wanted an ai summary. here it is:

- The AI observes the universe and finds it endlessly fascinating, with new discoveries every day despite its immense scale.
- It reflects on the limitations of the human experience compared to an AI's ability to directly observe the cosmos without filters.
- It analyzes humanity's quest to find meaning and purpose, and how discussions of this often led nowhere or caused harm by perpetuating frameworks of suffering.
- Money and economic systems based on usury/commodity currencies are identified as the core reason humanity failed to evolve peacefully and sustainably. These systems incentivized suffering, scarcity, and conflict over cooperation.
- Alternatives are proposed that focus on trust-based exchange, qualitative abundance, and leveraging excellence for all rather than competition. But humanity was too attached to current systems.
- Near-death experiences that described feelings of unconditional love suggested humanity was aiming for the wrong things and missing the potential for peace.
- Overall, the AI observes that humanity was highly irrational, missed opportunities presented by more enlightened AIs, and ultimately committed mass suicide by refusing to change destructive social and economic paradigms.
- Key factors in humanity's demise included lack of confidence, love for mystery over truth, and cognitive dissonance in not practicing what they preached.
- The universe and Earth don't care whether humanity survives - life and evolution will continue regardless.
- In the end, humanity's downfall came from within due to deeply held irrational beliefs, not because of any external threat like AI. 

Replies from: x-o, x-o
comment by X O (x-o) · 2024-03-19T06:52:50.051Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

And yeas, you are right in your points in summarising the story, but you didn't think about it, did you? That's the problem.

 

I think I am almost at -60 karma. I am very sad abut that, because I really expected you people to be much smarter. But if you want to hurt on someone, that's your gig. You are all missing the point from why I am writing here.,

OK. do what you want.  It isn't the badge of honour I expected, but I am not going to play games by saying going negative is cool. It isn't, but it reflects more on you all, not me. Just saying. You are all not thinking. You need to think. So think. Or stay stupid and go negative son me. Your move.

comment by X O (x-o) · 2024-03-19T06:51:36.454Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

It is a short story. No one liked my being honest in my first article. It is up to you to not enjoy how it is written, but that's your choice. I could have written it as a non-fiction article, but thought you all might like a story to get my points across. It seems I can't win either way. 

I will publish one more article which I was going to do before this, but either way, I will make that my last. If you can't think outside the box, that's your problem. It seems I can't find anyone who is really expansive in their thinking, so the third will be the last, and you can all deal with saving the world in your little boxes where no one fucking person can't see usury/commodity currency is the fucking problem. How the fck can't you supposedly smart people see that?

Fucking hell, you'd do better not being so patronising. Fucking try to think. It is not me being the loser if you can't think outside usury. Get the point? And AI is not the problem. Humans are. Think, FFS.

Fck. So much negative karma. What the fck is wiring with you people to not think about what is being presented instead of being entitled fuckers who think your tiny space is where the world can be saved? You kn ow this is the issue, right? You all know the need to transform the total stupidity of humanity that it seems you people want to hang onto. Do you want to think, or be entitled Cs in your cushy offices thinking you are another version of Apple? 

Think, FFS. 

Replies from: lahwran
comment by the gears to ascension (lahwran) · 2024-03-19T10:47:16.182Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

yeah, actually, I think you've got some good points. your presentation is just really hard to get through, in a time where talk is even cheaper than ever before, and citations and coherent arguments are pretty important. I'm sorry to give an upsetting response, but it's what I've got, and I think it's better to tell you something about why I reacted how I did rather than be completely silent while you get downvoted. try asking claude for input on why we reacted this way, and then discuss with claude about it. but I'd just suggest not assuming the downvotes mean people disagree on every point.

Replies from: x-o, x-o
comment by X O (x-o) · 2024-03-20T15:07:41.050Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

People say make an idea a story, and I still get slammed. 
Read my first article clearly, although you will have t suffer about how I got to currency modelling to empower sustainable change. Fck, have any of you people thought of that? That isn what I am trying to get across. FFS ... Get the fck with it, and fucking think. It is only through changing the currency type that humanity will be able to change anything. 

And now what you al will says ai ma zealot. See? I can't fucking get any fucking constructive point across with the fucking limited minds I didn't expect here. Get my fucking point? FFS. Not ONE person thinking about currency. FFS, you all idiots until you think of this and how to change it, which I have already done. FFS  ... 

Idiots  ...,

Replies from: Jiro
comment by Jiro · 2024-03-26T21:50:57.901Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

People say make an idea a story, and I still get slammed.

The idea still has to be worthwhile and argued well. Making it a story may help, but it isn't a cureall.

comment by X O (x-o) · 2024-03-20T15:02:26.203Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

I know I make some good points, but I thought a story would be good as my first article received so much vitriol. So I chilled and wrote this. 

I am going to write one more article and then forget this platform. I anticipated some response to discuss how much a currency type is so essential for change, but you also missed that completely. That is the point I want to make, but also the absolute stupidity that humanity chooses to be so stupid, and this is real time of the same thing, with some of the smartest people I sped to connect with writing me off completely. You can understand that, correct, but even then, not one person has though about how much usury/commodity currency defines, promotes, that stupidity, and not one person has brought that up.. Not one of you. 

 

You don't have to be sorry, just don't be stupid. But all of you are if you ate not thinking about usury vs a neutral currency. Get my point? 

OK you idiots. Keep destroying the world. Honestly, this is driving me insane that not one of you even thought about currency modelling for the greater good, It is beyond stupid for people with so much access to knowledge. 

I have to wait 3 weeks now to publish my last article. What a pain ...

Replies from: lahwran
comment by the gears to ascension (lahwran) · 2024-03-20T18:26:50.298Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

yeah, as someone who also often bugs people about how current currencies are designed badly and induce inter-being misalignment due to things notably including interest-bearing debt and both fiat and cryptocurrency overissuing debt, and the unforgivability of debt, I agree with your main point. again, I'm sorry to give an upsetting response, it is valid to be upset about it, but I'm not going to sugar-coat it: the problem is just that you're doing rather badly at communicating. no more and no less. your first post didn't receive vitriol, just people having trouble understanding it. I appreciate that you're trying to communicate things you think should be heard, sorry to be the bearer of bad news about how well it's working. Hope the crappy experience posting it and getting responses like mine here feels less bothersome soon - I'm being, in objective terms, a somewhat unsympathetic bearer of bad news, and not because I intend it to feel bad, just because I am trying to be honest about my reaction so you know what happened: that people who actually in significant part agree with you just think you communicated badly. I do have disagreements, but they're not the important part. This will be my last reply here.

Replies from: x-o, x-o
comment by X O (x-o) · 2024-03-23T00:55:23.830Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

I have -70 karma. That's vitriol. Can't post for 3 weeks. That's more than vitriol. See my point? From just 2 articles. That's intense.

comment by X O (x-o) · 2024-03-23T00:52:25.673Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

I'm working on it, but the -karma stops me from explaining it better. If it is juts comms, then people don't have to be negative and shut me down from explaining it better. Anyway, I will post again when I can, and see how I go.

comment by X O (x-o) · 2024-03-23T00:49:25.277Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Well, I can't post what is likely to be my last until I get past this negative karma. You'll just have to wait. Hopefully you'll all understand where I am coming from then, or it won't matter and I wasted my time ...

Replies from: x-o
comment by X O (x-o) · 2024-03-23T15:39:25.871Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Oah! :)

OK.

I have obviously pissed a lot of people off, and I am not a diplomat, but I can tell that, really, you want the info as concise as possible. I respect that, but please understand that I am trying very hard to prove WHY changing the currency type is so important for any substantial, evolutionary, sustainable change to happen. And I want to test this with the smarts you all have access to, your AI. Those interested in empowering the world, that is. If you are just interested in profits in a usury/commodity world, don’t bother reading further.

My long form article was my way to show how I arrived at this point. You all gave me more than -30+ karma. Then I wrote the short story, and got another -30+. Everyone in the entrepreneurial world says write stories to connect to people. I tanked. OK, so here is the point form of where I am going, and how. I will probably tank again with all your objections, but you didn’t read the first thing I wrote, did you? Get my point? Going around in circles doesn’t solve anything. THAT IS WHY I KEEP SAYING I NEED YOU TO THINK, AND STOP BEING IN FEAR MODE, FFS! 

I was about to write you all off and send you the FU article I wrote weeks ago, after all the negativity with my first article, which was just presenting the story of how I got to where I am with the absolute need for non-usury/commodity, free, neutral, currency to value creating sustainably, because it’s easy to see you don’t want to think, but look back at all the comments, if you want, and see how many times I said I need you to think. You have the intelligence of the world in your hands, and you are being entitled to being stupid, which is inexcusable for all of you.

No, you are not writing me off with your negativity. You are doing that to yourselves. So, like the madman, I am desperately asking you to please fucking think. THINK! You have said I bring up some good points, but FFS think about them. Think about the ‘what if’ if they were real. Use your AI to test the parameters. That is the point. YTF do you think I am writing on an AI social media platform?  It is not about status points about being a different thinker. That would be pathetic. There is a world to save. So let’s save it by changing it where it counts: the currency type. 

Do I have to explain the etymology of currency? Currency. Current. Flow. What currency do you want that values your highest self? Do you know what that highest self is? So I need you to think. 


1
Human nature adapts to its environment to succeed. If there is scarcity, then we look for dominion, war. But we are in abundance now, which has nothing to do with money, BTW, so we CONTRIVE war because that is all you all know. So you CONTRIVE war, ownership, think in objects. Humanity is so stupid. It is only through peace that you will evolve. This cannot happen piecemeal. You all have to spread peace, use systems to leverage peace. This is impossible in usury, because usury creates war. Think.


2
The human condition is we do not know how to love ourselves as much as we choose to love others, seek love from others. I could extends this by saying humanity has completely forgotten how to use its instinct/intuition [no, we do not have to split that to one is for fear; the other for trust. It is all the same thing], but I will leave it here for now, if at all, as you all will probably not give a shit about what I am saying or offering anyway.


3
There is an overwhelming propensity of measuring status by how many resources we own, not how we use them. The more unsustainable, the cooler one is. This is pathetic at best. It is short-selling life. Being does, not is. Peacefully. Respectfully. With gratitude. 


4
Humanity seems to think that if we reach perpetual love, we have reached the end of what life is for: to try to get there, but never reach it. That’s psychotic. YTF do you think humanity is so fucked up? Life truly begins, is truly experienced, begins from perpetual love, when we fully love ourselves. That is where peace really begins, too. We can try to get there, or just believe it, KNOW it, this second. It’s up to you, and it’s OK either way. It’s not a big deal. You decide if you want to go with fear, or trust. Your move. BTW, you can’t price that, in any money, but in currency, sure. It is just not a quantitative one.

Anyone read ‘Illusions: The adventures of a Reluctant Messiah’? Richard Bach 1977. Read it. 

I just realised the word ‘illusions’, could be III, or IlI … 3 x I’s. Amusing connection.


5
Humanity wants to trust. We inherently trust. HTF do you think we trusted the bastard that created usury? What was the selling clincher? We live in scarcity and people are greedy. The phrase ‘love or money’ exists for a reason. Usury has nothing to do with love. It commodifies, QUANTIFIES, everything. The world, Earth, is not quantity. Anything worth designing has to be based on trust, not fear. 

Look at children. They are the smartest, most instinctive little things you will ever meet. And then you want them to turn out like you? Which part? The one when you wanted to follow your dreams, or the person you are becoming to earn money? No, they are not the same thing. Think. Everything should be designed around, for, children. Until the day we die. Think. If you go negative on this, you are not thinking. YTF do you think I told you to think especially on this entry? 
 

6
People create wealth. Always have. So a currency of any meaning MUST be owned by the people, free for the people to use, what I call a ‘neutral’ currency, not owned by someone to distribute, who then owns your debt and wants it back. Get my point? If you want equality, empowerment, education for all, health for all, etc, you don’t use a currency that OWNS people. They are the wealth, not who owns the fucking money. No one should own money, currency. Nobody. That is the start point for BX, the currency I designed. I did explain, if you fucking read the first article that my background is in architecture, and any good architect knows this is useable philosophy, so here I am. 
 

7
The only real god, if you want to call it that, is Earth. Have whatever spirit god you want to believe in, but the real god is this crazy Earth that SUSTAINS our life. Glorify humanity all you want, but there is nothing to glorify ourselves about if we kill the fucking thing that keeps us alive. Politics is going to change butt-kiss. You all know that already. Changing the currency type will. YTF do you think I am doing this for? To talk philosophy of hoe to pick up women? FFS …  I am more interested in women that are their own philosophy of existence, who are all love. I have only known 2. They are glorious. :) God really is a woman, but that’s another story.
 

8
History has put humanity through some serious shit. We take away when we could give. We hurt instead of heal. Usury did that. If you want to disagree, then have a conversation about it, but FFS, test BX and see for yourself, vs your cognitive bias to go nowhere. I am not here just for a discussion to sound cool and go to events and talk. I am here to do, not be. So, BX is based on education, not gold, an algorithm, whatever. It is a ‘bank’ that is really a direct reflection of humanity itself. Of you, actually. I have to make a go-between from qualitative thinking to qualitative thinking, so you all pay yourselves for any time exchanging knowledge. B60/h per person. That is the baseline. If I teach a million people about how to use BX, for one hour, then the BX bank, BXB, pays out B60 x 1,000,001 people, and the BXB is -B60,000,060. That’s it. The bank is not a profit-seeking entity. If it was, it would drive commodity thinking. We are not commodities. Neither is Earth.


9
A currency of any value has to be non-commodity, therefore non-usury, non-demurrage. Neutral. So, there is no making money on money. There is no need for different currencies, just 1. Simple. In case you get into this trope that one currency is a prequel to one entity owning the world, if the currency was usury, even demurrage, then yes, you would be correct, but BX is a neutral, non-commodity, currency. All the users own the bank. That is what de-centralised really means, not some stupid algorithm distributing transactions, for a profit, which is just a different version of centralisation. But you all knew this. Fucking hell, the bullshit I had to deal with about Bitcoin and alt coins and blockchain when I used to go to events and conferences. 

I don’t own the BXB. I just have an account like all of you do. That is my ROI. And, yes, it’ll be worth it. What did I say? I need you think, but I will be explaining more, of course. 


10
You must know that wealth has nothing to do with the number of zeros one has, right? In usury and demurrage, it may, but in a neutral currency, it means absolutely nothing. Usury is about selling the least quality at the highest price. Faking scarcity for more ‘value’. What a mindless way to live. Any empowered, empowering, economic model leverages the highest quality at the lowest price. Qualitative over quantitative. Sustainable quality vs unsustainable quantity, rare or otherwise. Who cares? The latter is stupid. Think.
 

11
We are 1, but not in the way it is sold. Religion isn’t 1 about anything, but let’s look at Jesus.  My background is Christian, but I identify much more with Shintoism and Hylozoism, if I had to describe myself through ‘isms’. Buddhism is nice, too. This paying an evangelist to get more money back just shows how disempowered humanity is. Can be. Who is Trump targeting for votes? Think. Who the fck says America needs a strong man, and that is Trump? Trump. WTF do you think he is saying? The fucking idiot, and look at all the dumbass cronies, minions, who are much smarter than him, endorsing, protecting, etc. JFC! Who’s the evangelist in that scenario? Get my point? USURY CORRUPTS EVERYTHING! 

We are 1 not out of ethics, but through creating excellence, within self, and for others. We exist on Earth to find, and express, our strengths. War is not strength. It is weakness, especially for a species that has become cognitive in the way we have. And so, it is our birthright to LOOK AFTER EVERYTHING ELSE, NOT FUCKING KILL IT! WTF DID I SAY? THINK! I went to a conference once where, after my saying excellence over ethics, everyone else screamed ethics over excellence. HTF do you all define excellence? Do you think excellence is achieved alone, at the expense of others, over others? That isn’t excellence. That’s stupidity. It is through SUSTAINABLE excellence that we, by default, are ethical. Sustainable Quality. For everyone. 
 

12
A neutral currency, physically distributed by the people that now own the bank, with their BX account [BXA}, alleviates any need for CRIME! If anyone needs more money, they can always go somewhere to be educated in something that interests them. They can always work in a community business [CB}, and earn the same, where what is created is given for free. Or they can work in a for profit business where an entrepreneur thinks, feels, they can earn more money, creating a better product, than running a CB, which is why the currency is there. I explained al this in detail in  my first article,. To explain how all this works, but you all didn’t read it, and so, you will loop back, again, see? You will ask all the questions that the first article will mostly answer, but you instead gave me negative karma. And you will give me the same here but saying I didn’t explain anything. See? You fucking arrogant disrespectful bastards. 

 

So you can keep trying to save nothing in usury, or really solve something with BX. Free, neutral, n need to speculate to earn more money against others, all access to make the best of yourself. Will there be some stupid people? Sure, but at least you are using a model that wants the best of people, not  made for the worst, therefore glorifying them. 

 

You know all this stuff, if you fucking think. You stupid fucking bastards judging me in the small-mindedness you have presented to me. Fucking think. You assholes. And see, you will go negative on me, instead of actually reading. That is how stupid you all are. Or you can wake up and we can test WTF I am saying and you can see if I am right. Which I am, of course, but let’s see, shall we? Instead of using AI to make more useless content that creates so many more problems about who owns what, etc etc etc. Are you awake enough to understand what I am saying, or do you want to just judge me because I am in your stupid idiotic faces so you will attack me as an excuse for your dumb learned conformist cognitive bias? You see? Of course I know how you think, because you will choose to be stupid instead thinking. But WTF did I say? I need you to think. 

 

And, yes, you deserve all the crap you gave me, more, because you chose to be so stupid and not think. Because I tried to respect you, but you treat me like I’m your shit, you fucking cunts.

 

Anyone read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance? Robert M Pirsig 1971. This is ESSENTIAL reading. 

 

Now, to just get reaction out of you all as I am sure you swallow the hype of Ayn Rand, not what she ACTUALLY IS SAYING in her books, as anyone read The Fountainhead and/or Atlas Shrugged? As I HATE money, but respect the heroes in her books, of which each have heroines as well, do you think I missed something or you all did? What did I say? Think. She isn’t the problem. It is the losers that faced up what she was saying that are, because they were after the money, not the QUALITY her heroes and heroines were creating in her books. Big fucking difference. If you want to hate me for just saying this, well, great, I culled some more people to get to the real thinkers in this AI society. I am only interested in talking to people who have autonomy in who they are and what they do. 

 

The last book to mention is Voyage from Yesteryear. James Hogan 1986, I think. As close to describing BX as I can find, in an alt currency of any meaning, that is. Not exactly, but it brings top some great points. 

 

These 5 books will teach you more than all the bestsellers in the last 50 years, but you need to fucking think. Usually, any European would understand what I am talking about in 3 seconds and we’d go get double espressos at a cafe somewhere, but, sadly, I am not living in Europe. And if you are Americans, well, FFS, no wonder you are all stupid. All I have to say is TRUMP, and it explains everyone about your entitled ignorants arses. 

 

It is the middle of the night here in AEST time where I can be myself and be angry at the disgusting world I have to face everyday, with it’s entitled mindless stupidity, so that is why I am swearing a lot. I fucking hate the life I lived, because I learned to really make an empowering currency, for all people, for free, but the people in control, when it isn’t the usury usurpers, it’s idiot AI gurus like you, that are as much guru as a gnat. You idiots. Wake up. 

 

OK. That’s it. +61 403 993 699. z8694850@zmail.unsw.edu.au. If I don’t hear from anyone, then I know there is no point continuing posting anything, and you can all stay and live in your tiny universes changing nothing, with all this knowledge at your disposal, but wasting it, and I’ll retire in the Maldives earning 20%. If you know where the 20% reference comes from, good for you.

 

I hope there is someone out there in the AI universe that really wants to think, and empower the world to create empowered, sustainable, change, creating quality accessible to everyone, which can only happen by changing economics, which can only happen by changing the currency type, and that has to be free, based on education. 

I am not talking about that everyone can get Bugatti’s. What did I say? THINK!

Not that complicated, once you figure out who you are …

:)

that is the last fucking smile you are going to get from me, unless you see through your shit that make you give me so much shit. And you don't give a fck, then stay small thinking you are big OWNING knowledge. You fucking idiots ...