High school activities and medical school admissions

post by JonahS (JonahSinick) · 2013-09-09T04:01:21.356Z · score: 5 (6 votes) · LW · GW · Legacy · 12 comments

Contents

  What Matters for Medical School Admissions?
  How does where you go to college impact your grades and MCAT scores? 
  Implications for how to spend time as a high school student
    Building human capital in preparation for future coursework
    Balancing building human capital and signaling quality to colleges
None
12 comments

Many people consider medicine to be a desirable profession because of the high status of the job of being a doctor, the opportunity to help people, and the high income. Whether conventional views about what it’s like to be in medicine are well grounded is unclear, but it’s undeniable that many young people aspire to become doctors.

In order to become a doctor, you need to secure admission to medical school. This post offers one perspective on one aspect of what to do if your goal is to get into medical school.

What Matters for Medical School Admissions?

Medical school admission is competitive, with the overall rate of acceptance to US medical schools at 45.2%. So in order to get into medical school, the average applicant faces the challenge of differentiating him or herself from other applicants.

Many high school students who aspire to be doctors place high emphasis on getting into a good college, because they think that it will better position them to get into medical school.

Medical school acceptance rate varies significantly according to college attended. The statistics that colleges release about the acceptance rates for their undergraduates can be misleading, because some colleges discourage underqualified students from applying to medical school. But there’s a strong case that among those undergraduates who aspire to be doctors, Harvard undergraduates get into medical school with much higher probability than do undergraduates at lower tier state universities.

Some high school students take this to be evidence that going to a more prestigious college increases their chances of getting into medical school. This could be true, but a major confounding factor is ability bias: students who are able to get into a prestigious college are unusually strong academically, and so would have been more likely into medical school independently of where they went to college. Though different people have different views, it appears that the consensus view of medical advice forums and websites is that undergraduate institution attended plays a relatively minor role in medical admissions (see, e.g. here).

What are the major inputs into medical school admissions? The Association of American Medical Colleges publishes statistics on percentage of applicants accepted to US medical schools, according to GPA range and MCAT range. The associations between GPA and MCAT scores and probability of acceptance are very strong. Though correlation is not causation, elite conventional wisdom is that the association is mostly causal: increasing your GPA and MCAT scores increases the probability that you’ll get into medical school.

Focusing on GPA: of med school applicants who scored between 30 and 32 on the MCAT, acceptance rates associated with different GPA ranges (>= 3.0) were as follows:

3.80-4.00 GPA — 82.3%

3.60-3.79 GPA — 72.1%

3.40-3.59 GPA — 55.5%

3.20-3.39 GPA — 38.7%

3.00-3.19 GPA — 29.7%

This suggests that for medical school admissions, the grades that you get in college matter far more than where you go to college, except to the extent that where you go to college impacts your grades and MCAT scores.

How does where you go to college impact your grades and MCAT scores? 

Implications for how to spend time as a high school student

Two functions that a high school student’s activities serve are building human capital and signaling quality to colleges.

As above, signaling quality to colleges might matter for medical school admissions, because of more prestigious colleges offering a better peer group. The other benefits of going to a more prestigious college are less clear. 

For some high school students, the opportunity to increase their chances of getting into medical school by building human capital may be much more significant than the opportunity to increase their chances of getting into medical school by signaling quality to colleges. 

Building human capital in preparation for future coursework

The main inputs into medical school admissions are probably GPA and MCAT scores.

Students take the MCAT near the end of college, and it’s unclear that it’s possible for high school students significantly influence their test scores 4+ years in the future (although it may be possible for them to do so).

It’s more clear that high school students do have the opportunity to engage in activities that will increase their college GPA. Medical schools require that college students take two years of chemistry, one year of biology and one year of physics (in addition to English and sometimes calculus). High school students are in a good position to get started learning the material that will be covered in these college courses, improving their chances of getting good grades in these courses.

High school students can take Advanced Placement courses in biology, chemistry and physics. The material in these courses overlaps with the material in the courses that medical schools require, and in some cases is prerequisite to it. 

It’s often possible to get an ‘A’ an AP course without mastering the material. High schoolers can benefit substantially more from AP courses, by learning the material more thoroughly than they need to get A’s in the courses (and 5’s on the AP exam), and practice well beyond the point of initial mastery. This will prepare them noticeably better for the corresponding college courses than merely taking the AP courses and getting A’s in them. 

High school students can enhance their ability to master material in AP courses by learning the material in prerequisite courses well.

Students who learn chemistry and physics often find math to be a stumbling block.  So high school students can prepare themselves to do better in college chemistry and physics by learning high school math well.

Balancing building human capital and signaling quality to colleges

Taking and learning biology, chemistry, physics and math in high school, and learning them unusually well, signals quality to colleges. Colleges look favorably upon good grades in AP courses. Learning sciences well prepares students to do well on the SAT subject tests in the respective sciences, and scores on SAT subject tests are an input into college admissions decisions.

At the same time, doing these things may not be optimal for signaling quality to colleges. Learning math and science really well during high school can come at the cost of grades in other subjects, and extracurricular activities. College admissions committees don’t reward learning beyond what’s needed for high grades and SAT subject test scores.

So spending high school time building skills for succeeding in future premed college courses (and thereby having better prospects for getting into medical school) can be in conflict with signaling quality to colleges. 

One is then faced with the question of how to balance the two things. For a given student, some relevant questions are:

  1. How much does having a stronger, more motivated peer group matter? Some students have no trouble learning on their own, and staying goal directed, while others find it much easier to stay motivated and learn when they’re interacting with peers who have similar goals.
  2. To what degree is signaling quality to colleges compromised by a given opportunity to learn premed science?

What’s best for a given individual depends on contextual particulars. But it’s worth noting that “doing well in high school” in a conventional sense may not be the best approach for getting into medical school.

12 comments

Comments sorted by top scores.

comment by CarlShulman · 2013-09-09T04:14:41.208Z · score: 5 (5 votes) · LW(p) · GW(p)

You left out different grading standards at different schools, and the strength of the competition where grading is on a curve. That is a major difference between schools which pushes against many elite schools. A strong student who was (unreasonably) certain they wanted to go to professional school in a field like medicine or law where entrance tests and GPA play such strong roles would have a plausible case for racking up easy As at a low-competition school (which would be cheaper if their family was wealthy enough to face the undiscounted price at top schools).

However, in practice I would be wary of such advice because of the networking and other benefits of elite undergraduate colleges for other fields such as entrepreneurship and politics, or the preparation for technical fields.

comment by JonahS (JonahSinick) · 2013-09-09T05:00:02.698Z · score: 4 (4 votes) · LW(p) · GW(p)

I thought about this, but I wasn't able to find compelling data supporting the view that less prestigious schools have laxer grading standards.

Wikipedia's page on grade inflation says that the average GPA at Harvard during 2004 was 3.48, contrasting with 3.05 at UC San Diego. This is consistent with grading standards being roughly the same at the two schools.

Anecdotally, I haven't noticed much variance in grading standards for the same course across the ~4 colleges that I've had personal exposure to. I would guess that grading standards vary far more across different courses at a fixed institution than they do for a fixed course across different institutions.

comment by Torello · 2013-09-10T15:05:43.604Z · score: 1 (1 votes) · LW(p) · GW(p)

This is a well-organized, well-written post.

I recommend that you try to post it in places where people looking to attend medical school have a better chance of reading it.

comment by JonahS (JonahSinick) · 2013-09-10T17:26:21.892Z · score: 1 (1 votes) · LW(p) · GW(p)

Thanks!

Do you have any suggestions for suitable forums?

comment by ITakeBets · 2013-09-13T00:22:16.561Z · score: 0 (0 votes) · LW(p) · GW(p)

I would suggest forums.studentdoctor.net but honestly anyone who has found SDN is probably in pretty good shape as far as medical school admissions advice goes.

comment by Torello · 2013-09-10T18:36:26.151Z · score: 0 (0 votes) · LW(p) · GW(p)

I don't, as I'm not in a related field, but I think people interested in medicine, student advising, career planning, and maybe other fields could really make use of this. Sorry I can't be more specific.

When I was in college none of my advisers ever gave me anything like this; just vague, confused, irrelevant, and sometimes straight-up inaccurate (about their own programs!) information. This is what I was seeking.

comment by Swimmer963 · 2013-09-11T01:20:17.181Z · score: 0 (0 votes) · LW(p) · GW(p)

My impression is that in Canada, your place of undergrad matters less, although high grades are a minimum threshold and volunteer/community environment helps filter the kids who meet that threshold... Maybe because there just isn't a divide in between "state schools" and "private/Ivy League" schools in the same way. There are some schools that are more competitive to get into, and I wouldn't be surprised if med schools judge somewhat based on that as well as just on university GPA, but it's not something that I've ever heard brought up. I'm about 70% sure that I could get into a Canadian med school if I applied now, and 90% sure that I could if I applied in 5 years with some more "life experience" under my belt.

comment by Douglas_Knight · 2013-09-11T01:06:44.348Z · score: 0 (0 votes) · LW(p) · GW(p)

The associations between GPA and MCAT scores and probability of acceptance are very strong. Though correlation is not causation, elite conventional wisdom is that the association is mostly causal: increasing your GPA and MCAT scores increases the probability that you’ll get into medical school.

I think you're overdoing the disclaimers. Medical schools, the people actually making the decisions, assert that they use GPA and MCAT, ie, the clause after the colon. I think it is pretty safe to believe them. The clause before the colon is stronger, so harder to support, but this is not just an observation of correlation, but a statistic chosen for publication by the association of medical schools, to illustrate something about which they know the truth. Of course, they could be trying to trick us into believing they use it more than they do, but that's a pretty narrow concern.

comment by JonahS (JonahSinick) · 2013-09-11T07:22:39.006Z · score: 0 (0 votes) · LW(p) · GW(p)

Perhaps

comment by benkuhn · 2013-09-09T22:13:09.130Z · score: 0 (0 votes) · LW(p) · GW(p)

This suggests that for medical school admissions, the grades that you get in college matter far more than where you go to college, except to the extent that where you go to college impacts your grades and MCAT scores.

What about the obvious confounder that students from elite schools will apply to more selective med schools? This could mitigate the visible effect of undergraduate education quality quite a lot.

comment by JonahS (JonahSinick) · 2013-09-09T22:52:53.660Z · score: 0 (0 votes) · LW(p) · GW(p)

I'm not sure that I follow. Are you saying that students who go to more selective colleges aim too high with respect to where they go for medical schools, and don't apply to safety schools?

comment by benkuhn · 2013-09-10T03:50:16.674Z · score: 0 (0 votes) · LW(p) · GW(p)

No, I was assuming the statistics counted an "acceptance" as one school accepting an applicant, in which case the fact that elite students applied to more elite med schools would be sufficient. But it looks as though they're instead counting an acceptance as any school accepting an applicant.