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comment by tailcalled · 2022-08-19T16:33:44.284Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

These two topics are connected in a non-obvious way. I've had a difficult-to-describe feeling for the last several years as I've tried to refine and simplify my own views on a lot of different topics. Some of the views I've tried to work out are on controversial topics like race, racism, gender, sex, abortion and so on. Some are less controversial- for example, I've become increasingly convinced that the practice of ticketing people who speed does nothing to reduce speeding and everything to line the pockets of the state/local government. It feels predatory and I think it should probably be done away with.

Huh? Seems like basic incentive theory that punishment for speeding would reduce speeding?

Why? What possible reasoning process could draw a connection between a criminal offense and participating in democracy? Selling drugs or killing someone in anger does not necessarily make you incapable of selecting a leader or evaluating policy. The only reason that I can think of is to keep them from voting to improve their own treatment. You don't let slaves vote because they might vote for fewer whips- and you don't let prisoners vote because they might vote for better pay. Or more investigation into abuse. Or less crowded prisons.

Is this absolutely the only reason you can think of? I guess more generally, what correlates of selling drugs or killing someone in anger can you think of?

Replies from: blackstampede
comment by blackstampede · 2022-08-20T14:29:18.140Z · LW(p) · GW(p)Replies from: tailcalled
comment by tailcalled · 2022-08-20T17:00:02.449Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

More importantly, I don't think the state actually wants to reduce speeding, because that would reduce revenue from tickets. In my neck of the woods, there are a lot of speed traps- speed limit changes designed to cause people to speed accidentally. So the speed limit goes from 65 to 45 for seemingly no reason, then back to 65 a mile later. The length of highway that is set at 45 often has terrain that favors lurking police cars. This is predatory. And it bothers me.

Ah ok. It should be noted that it's perfectly consistent for both of the following to be true:

  • At the current margins, the state doesn't really mind speeding and mainly sees it as a source of revenue.
  • If speed limits were not enforced at all and was only suggestions made on signs at the road, the culture around driving would shift to very often speed very strongly.
comment by shminux · 2022-08-19T18:13:15.508Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

First, it sounds like your childhood was rather challenging. If you haven't yet, take the ACE quiz https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2015/03/02/387007941/take-the-ace-quiz-and-learn-what-it-does-and-doesnt-mean, and if you score high, consider finding a good trauma therapist.

Second, you say 

But the more I try to hammer my moral, ethical and intellectual positions into some sort of minimal framework that is internally coherent, the more distance I feel toward everyone that I come into contact with. I feel like a stranger in my own culture.

"everyone" is a pretty strong word! What are your "moral, ethical and intellectual positions" and how are they different from everyone's you meet?

comment by Slider · 2022-08-19T17:18:54.839Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Sure you can hold an average person responcible for refusing to buck the weigth.

The church going dad is not in a especially bad situation to evaluate things. The excuses will vary, young you are uninformed and ignorant and old you are integrated and entrenched. When it is always difficult there is no special "point of no return".

The codmenation is not going to be super harsh but its also not nothing.

Being a weirdo means that you make your own mistakes rather than propagating other peoples mistakes. That seems morally quite relevant for me.