Intro-level training materials for rationality / critical thinking

(Is there such a thing as an "AI graduate"?)

You know, while I appreciated the pop culture (and cult-classic culture) references in the Sequences while I was reading them, probably because I got almost all of them, I can definitely see the argument that they reduce accessibility for a wider audience.

I don't know math, quantum mechanics or philosophy

Perhaps I'm used to read on, even if I might miss something. I know a bit of math, and there are a few posts that benefit from that, but only a few. I don't know much philosophy either (except the sequences, of course).

i had to open 10-20 pages of references and google searches to follow what was going on(per individual sequence page).

Let's take Making Beliefs Pay Rent (in (Anticipated Experiences) as an example. What would you have to look up there? And don't say "colonial alienation" ;-). For me it might be phlogiston and elan-vital. But A) understanding those words is hardly essential for understanding the post and B) they are explained somewhere else in the sequences (I never said navigating them were easy).

Its also strongly aimed/influenced by american culture, so some things are weird for us Europeans.

I'm European and I don't really know what you mean.

sigh You obviously have no idea how to debate.

Your first point must ALLWAYS contain the evidence it is based on, BEFORE moving on. For example;

"Pigs can fly, flying is achieved by the length of the wing being greater on the top, creating an area of low pressure, effectively sucking the plane into the sky."

The first 3 words, were not verified in any way.

If it is indeed "the map and not the territory" as you say. Then it is the arguers fault (arguers for the proposition).

You see; debating method (all academic debating methods) require the argument is taken in turns. And if the guy has not presented any evidence at the end of the first sentence, let alone after a 15 min and part 1 of the video. Then they are going to get torn a new one, by the other team (arguers against the proposition).

“You didn't cite any[fallacies].”

I said: “generalisations, using the words 'all conspiracy theorists'”

That counts as 1 fallacy (why did you miss that?), and in debating terms, he is now 1 point down. My argument, which contains no fallacies (and you haven’t found any yet). Is still at 0. Therefore not much more analysis is needed to know he is wrong.

“The video's creator's name should be capitalized. Also, she prefers to be addressed as Miss Shirley Representing the Point.” Wat… oh I see… what a robust argument… descending into criticizing spelling errors.

“Please read the material that is the background for many on this site if you are going to try to engage with the ideas here: Map and Territory, Words”

I might… but as of yet, your “map and territory” is looking mighty fallacious. I really REALLY doubt that you can vindicate it.

I’m seeing the shadow of flaws and fallacies, cast throughout this entire website, for 2 main reasons; no experience debating and actually testing the theory, and, very little experience using strict critical thinking. And above all else, TOO MANY PSYCHOLOGY THEORIES.

Psychology AND theory, bare no impact upon evidence based arguments. The evidence is either real or fake, true or false. It exists in a binary state of 1 or 0, it does not matter who is looking at it, or what state their mind is in, as evidence is independent of mind as it exists outside of it. (oh here come the thumbs-down due to biased psychologists)

Would it be legitimate for me to downvote people the next time they mention ideas that I consider completely crackpot (like quantum immortality), or ideas that most of the world considers completely crackpot (like many-worlds)?

I tend to presume less control of other people's voting behavior than you seem to.

The site you keep linking to is a grade school-level (junior-high level at best) introduction to reasoning, that still uses Aristotelian ideas about "proof". But reasoning has progressed significantly since the time of Aristotle 2400 years ago -- even since the time of the invention of the scientific method in medieval times.

We know how to calculate the approximate proper weight of evidence now. We have equations for probability and proper updating of beliefs. Have you even heard of Bayes' theorem?

"Appeals to Authority" aren't fallacies as long as the word of said authorities is weighted appropriately as Bayesian evidence, instead of treated as absolute proof.

Next you'll tell us that "absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence" when of course it is evidence of such, and everyone here knows it well, and anyone mathematically inclined could even give you the mathematical proof to that.

Start learning about Occam's razor, Bayesian updating, Solomonoff Induction, Kolmogorov Complexity -- also about cognitive biases (especially selection bias) and affective death spirals. Instead of talking about fallacies all the time, start thinking about biases.

Fish in a barrel... Must stop myself...

"Your comments were full of implicit and explicit signals of condescension towards the people you were talking to."

no source.

“It would only be an "ad hominem" fallacy if I was pretending to attack your argument: if I used an attack on your person in order to undermine your position. But I'm not doing that : I'm attacking your person, in order to have you improve your attitude, regardless of what position you hold.”

“Ad hominem” is Latin for “against the man”. “Ad hominems can simply take the form of abuse: e.g. “don’t listen to him, he’s a jerk”. http://www.criticalthinking.org.uk/unit2/fundamentals/logicalfallacies/adhominem/

Your above argument, is also a circular argument. “Circular arguments are arguments that assume what they’re trying to prove. If the conclusion of an argument is also one of its reasons, then the argument is circular.” http://www.criticalthinking.org.uk/unit2/fundamentals/logicalfallacies/circularity/

So, the reason are trying to improve my attitude, is because of my attitude (which is your conclusion). So if you believe the attitude is there. Then you are fine with this conclusion. But if you don’t… Either way you keep believing exactly what you did before.

My attitude is proportionate to my position; my argument is not disproven. So, if i disprove others argument. It is their position which should change.

You need to get used to abandoning positions which no longer work. Instead of trying to re-enforce a failed position.

“As I'm not an American I really don't have an emotional investment on your government”

I’m not American. I was discussing conspiracies. Why is it you think we have to have an emotional investment in things? It is merely a matter of evidence.

This is, for all practical purposes, false.

Because YOU say so? Wheres your evidence? Coz all i see is a theory...

"Obnoxious" and "arrogant" are not properties like "blue" or "spherical" or "rumbling" that correspond to objective phenomena independent of social context.

Yes they are. They have set definitions in dictionaries. The evidence would be a specific quote, and the explanation of how the quote achieves the criteria of the dictionary.

Your "social context" does not prove anything besides you perception. Which is hardly evidence on its own.

"If you say the ball is spherical and everyone else around you says the ball is cubic, you are almost certainly correct despite being a minority of one."

No you arnt... jeez, you people dont understand a damned thing about logic or scientific method.

Things arnt real just because you perceive them to be real. Their real because they can be repeatable PROVEN to be real.

What you just described is being biased to your own view. WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT I'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT ALL THIS TIME...

"If everyone around you says that you are obnoxious and arrogant, then you are, in fact, obnoxious and arrogant, even if you beg to difer."

This is the complete opposite of what you just explained. Now, i'm not "certainly correct despite being a minority of one." Because "If everyone around you says that you are obnoxious and arrogant, then you are, in fact, obnoxious and arrogant".

If everyone around me said we should all jump off a bridge that wouldnt make them any more correct than if i was on my own saying we should all jump off a bridge.

The missing link is; evidence.

For example, if i was the only one on fire, and the bridge had water below, and was the only way i could be extinguished. Then, considering the evidence, i would be justified. But if i tried to convince others who were not on fire. Then i wouldn’t be justified.

BUT YOU!!! You would jump along with me!

Huehuehue.... aint i a stinka?