Why is a goal a good thing?

post by Elo · 2015-05-29T03:00:21.471Z · LW · GW · Legacy · 12 comments

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12 comments

It seems to be an important concept that setting goals is something that should be done. Why?

Advocates of goal-setting (and the sheer number of them) would imply that there is a reason for the concept.

 

I have to emphasis that I don't want answers that suggest - "Don't set goals", as is occasionally written.  I specifically want answers that explain why goals are good. see http://zenhabits.net/no-goal/ for more ideas on not having goals.

 

I have to emphasise again that I don't mean to discredit goals or suggest that the Dilbert's Scott Adams "make systems not goals" suggestion is better or should be followed more than, "set goals".  see http://blog.dilbert.com/post/102964992706/goals-vs-systems .  I specifically want to ask - why should we set goals?  (because the answer is not intuitive or clear to me)

 

Here in ROT13 is a theory; please make a suggestion first before translating:

Cer-qrpvqrq tbnyf npg nf n thvqryvar sbe shgher qrpvfvbaf; Tbnyf nffvfg jvgu frys pbageby orpnhfr lbh pna znxr cer-cynaarq whqtrzragf (V.r. V nz ba n qvrg naq pna'g rng fhtne - jura cerfragrq jvgu na rngvat-qrpvfvba). Jura lbh trg gb n guvaxvat fcnpr bs qrpvfvbaf gung ner ybat-grez be ybat-ernpuvat, gb unir cerivbhfyl pubfra tbnyf (nffhzvat lbh qvq gung jryy; jvgu pbeerpg tbny-vagreebtngvba grpuavdhrf); jvyy yrnq lbh gb znxr n orggre qrpvfvba guna bgurejvfr hacynaarq pubvprf.

Gb or rssrpgvir - tbnyf fubhyq or zber guna whfg na vagragvba. "V jnag gb or n zvyyvbanver", ohg vapyhqr n fgengrtl gb cebterff gbjneqf npuvrivat gung tbny.  (fgevpgyl fcrnxvat bhe ybpny YrffJebat zrrghc'f tbny zbqry vf 3 gvrerq; "gur qernz". "gur arkg gnetrg". "guvf jrrx'f npgvba" Jurer rnpu bar yrnqf gb gur arkg bar.  r.t. "tb gb fcnpr", "trg zl qrterr va nrebfcnpr ratvarrevat", "fcraq na ubhe n avtug fghqlvat sbe zl qrterr")

Qvfnqinagntr bs n tbnyf vf vg pna yvzvg lbhe bccbeghavgl gb nafjre fvghngvbaf jvgu abiry nafjref. (Gb pbagvahr gur fnzr rknzcyr nf nobir - Jura cerfragrq jvgu na rngvat pubvpr lbh znl abg pbafvqre gur pubvpr gb "abg rng nalguvat" vs lbh gubhtug uneq rabhtu nobhg vg; ohg ng yrnfg lbh zvtug pubbfr gur fyvtugyl urnyguvre bcgvba orgjrra ninvynoyr sbbqf).


 

I suspect that the word "goals" will need a good taboo, feel free to do so if you think that is needed in your explanation.

12 comments

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comment by ChristianKl · 2015-05-30T20:37:07.356Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

I think it's a good question. A few of my thoughts:

Goals seem to be a fundamental part of how human minds works. It's impossible to move your arm without having a goal of where you want it to move.

If you switch off having a goal for the movement in hypnosis and tell someone to try to move their arm, they tense up the muscles of the arm but don't actually move the arm.

I'm underweight. I tried a lot of interventions and measured my weight every day. One month I added 800 kcal of maltrodextrin to my tea every day. However doing it like that didn't work well.

Then I decided I have enough. I simple make a decision to gain weight and let the body figure out what needs to be done on it's own. That worked till I was occupied with other stuff. The fine control didn't help, on the other hand the intention helped a lot.

A strong intention organizes all the mental processes. I'm more likely to follow an impulse of hunger. My body puts out the necessary hormones to put on weight.

Areas where there are lot of conflicting goals produce a drain of mental energy.

Having goals that you achieve creates a feeling of agentship. It makes you confident in achieving other things in the future.

comment by Adam Zerner (adamzerner) · 2015-05-29T04:53:58.240Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Like anything, it's a cost-benefit. Here's my impressions.

Benefits:

  • It feels good to accomplish the goal. (If I make a goal to run every day for a month and I accomplish it, it'd feel good. If I had otherwise happened to run every day for a month, I wouldn't experience that feeling of accomplishment at the end of it (in the same way).
  • It motivates people. What I describe above is part of "the carrot", but having goals also acts as "a stick". Because when you know you have a goal to do something, you're motivated to avoid the unpleasantness of not having achieved your goal.
  • Accomplishing goals boosts peoples confidence. When you are successful, you think, "I accomplished a Thing". This sort of explicit realization might not happen if you hadn't made it an explicit goal. With the realization might come feelings of, "I'm the sort of person who could accomplish things in general" or "I'm the kind of person who could accomplish similar things to the thing I just accomplished".
  • As a form of precommitment, it may help prevent you from rationalizing. Without a goal, it may be easy to say, "eh, maybe I shouldn't do this". But this is often a rationalization, short-sighted, fear-driven, impulse-driven etc. By setting a goal and sticking to it, you're sort of saying, "Hey future self - I declare that you don't have the authority to come up with rationalizations. You're not allowed to decide not to do this.".
  • (Each of these could be broken down further. Ex. you could make the distinction between feeling good right after accomplishing the goal of running every day for a month, and the feeling of looking back on that accomplishment 5 years in the future.)

Costs:

  • It's not "flexible". What if you set a goal for yourself, but subsequently realize that the goal isn't "what's best for you"? Like what if you realize that you've been seeking lost purposes or something? (There's a trade-off with the fourth bullet point of Benefits though)
  • It may be stressful. Having a list in your head of "stuff to do" is often stressful. Alternatively, you could just throw out that to-do list and say, "I'm just going to decide on the fly what's best for me to do; there's nothing that I have to do".
  • It also may be stressful in the sense that you are worried that you won't achieve it.
  • If you fail at your goal...
    • It may make you unhappy (because failing is unpleasant).
    • You may lose confidence and think, "I'm the sort of person that fails".
    • You'll probably feel less motivated to pursue goals in the future.

Personally, I really don't like the fact that goals "remove flexibility". The way I see it, what I should do depends on expected utility calculations, and these calculations change as I acquire new information and make progress in my analyses. I don't like the idea of putting myself in a situation where I'm not allowed to pursue the option that I calculate has the highest expected utility.

But I do find them moderately fun and motivating, and so I set "flexible goals" for myself.

I should also mention that one of the most important things that happened in my life involved setting an absolute goal. In 8th grade I made it a goal to make the high school basketball team the next year. I was pretty bad at the time and conventional wisdom said I had absolutely no shot. But I was extremely committed and I did it, and this made me happy and gave me a lot of confidence (sort of; it's more complicated).

Re: generally applicable advice - I've never been a fan of it (in this context, and also more generally). In the context of goals, I sense that people are different enough such that it's pretty hard to find generally applicable advice. Ie. they weigh the costs and benefits in the bullet points differently.

I'm not sure to what extent this is true though. I'm not particularly familiar with the literature, and I haven't thought about it too hard. I just sense that advice is a lot less generally applicable than "people" make it out to be.

comment by [deleted] · 2015-05-29T03:30:10.412Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Personally, I rarely set goals, and I'm happy this way. I've achieved a fair amount in running and academics without putting any pressure at all on myself. Still, I do set minor goals like "make my bed every day" or "learn about evolution."

I think it's a short-term vs. long-term happiness trade-off. Like, in the short-term, I'd rather sleep in an extra minute than make my bed. But in the long-term, I can pat myself on the back for becoming more conscientious and enjoy the aesthetic appeal. In the short-term, I'd have more fun going hiking than reading about evolution, but in the long-term, it feels good to be less ignorant.

Having specific goals probably helps people focus on what's important to them in the long run. But yeah, if personal happiness is someone's only/top priority in life, and that happiness doesn't depend too much on the happiness of the rest of the world, then that person might be better off just living in the moment and not worrying too much about goals.

Replies from: Elo
comment by Elo · 2015-05-29T05:05:14.079Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

(personal note: I have never understood the point of making a bed. I would rather have an unmade bed than a made bed)

Replies from: None
comment by [deleted] · 2015-05-29T07:56:11.811Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Generally speaking being in a space where things are tidy and orderly is supposed to have a psychological effect, making people more focused, organized, disciplined and so on, so pursuing their important goals more efficiently. I don't think anyone tested it scientifically, it is more like the pop-psychology of it. There is another idea that clutter is cognitively exhausting, perhaps a chaotic looking bed is in this category...

We know militaries tend to be very anal about this (make your bed perfectly, fold your clothes perfectly, and so on...) and they tend to be fairly efficient organizations so it must have some psychological effect probably, but it is not sure it is the kind of psychological effect you would want (obedience training, for example).

Replies from: adamzerner, Elo, Richard_Kennaway
comment by Adam Zerner (adamzerner) · 2015-05-29T14:24:09.014Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

There is another idea that clutter is cognitively exhausting, perhaps a chaotic looking bed is in this category...

To me, I actually find it to be the opposite. I like to read and do work in my bed, so I'm in and out of it a lot. And so I find it to be somewhat cognitively exhausting when I see that it's all tucked in and I have to fidget with my covers and pillows before I jump in.

And aesthetically, an "unmade" bed for me is just when the covers are slightly untucked and the pillows I'm not using are on the floor. I don't find this to be aesthetically troubling at all.

Replies from: None
comment by [deleted] · 2015-05-29T14:32:47.160Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

And aesthetically, an "unmade" bed for me is just when the covers are slightly untucked and the pillows I'm not using are on the floor. I don't find this to be aesthetically troubling at all.

Interesting. I get up every morning with my bed looking like I just had sex with a dozen rabid wild hogs. The bed sheet half off, pillows all over etc. I have no idea why.

Replies from: Lumifer
comment by Lumifer · 2015-05-29T14:50:38.135Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

looking like I just had sex with a dozen rabid wild hogs

...maybe you just don't remember X-D

comment by Elo · 2015-05-31T07:22:18.576Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

What I did: re-evaluate the "messy thing" to be "normal" or not-messy. I can understand where the idea that clutter is exhausting and confusing might come from; but if you don't do more than barely "see" it without identifying it or trying to add it to a list of "incomplete things" in your head; then its not really distracting. its about as distracting as the colour of the walls or the feel of your clothing...

comment by Richard_Kennaway · 2015-05-29T11:52:36.808Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

We know militaries tend to be very anal about this (make your bed perfectly, fold your clothes perfectly, and so on...) and they tend to be fairly efficient organizations so it must have some psychological effect probably, but it is not sure it is the kind of psychological effect you would want (obedience training, for example).

If you're adopting such a practice for your own sake, obedience to your own decisions can be considered a virtue worth cultivating. Or in LW terminology, the ability to precommit is useful and trainable.

Replies from: None
comment by [deleted] · 2015-05-29T13:11:44.986Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

I think spending time at LW hasi influenced me to do this, now that I think about it :)

I think a made bed looks a bit nicer, but that alone never made me make it. Everyone here makes it seem like setting and achieving goals is an attractive habit to be in, and at least with my new "little" goals, I agree, and I'm glad I have them.

comment by bortels · 2015-06-01T06:20:02.591Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Setting a goal helps clarify thought process and planning; it forces you to step back a bit and look at the work to be done, and the outcome, from a slightly different viewpoint. It also helps you maintain focus on driving toward a result, and gives you the satisfaction of accomplishment when (if) you reach the goal.