Chicanery: No

post by Screwtape · 2025-02-06T05:42:45.095Z · LW · GW · 1 comments

Contents

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1 comment

There is a concept I picked up from the Onyx Path forums, from a link that is now dead and a post I can no longer find. That concept is the Chicanery tag, and while I’ve primarily used it for tabletop RPGs (think Dungeons & Dragons) I find it applicable elsewhere. If you happen to be better at searching the forums than I am, a link would be lovely.

Chicanery: 
Noun.
The use of trickery to achieve a political, financial, or legal purpose.
From French chicanerie, from chicaner ‘to quibble’.

I. 

Imagine a magic power in a roleplaying game that says “You may change your features to look like another humanoid. You can change your entire appearance, even your sex, but cannot look like something significantly larger or smaller, or anything that isn’t humanoid.” Imagine it being positioned as a basic disguise power, not too high level. 

Now imagine doing your level best to rules-lawyer this power and break it over your knee.

Can I change my features to have gold fingernails, clip my fingernails, and sell the gold? Can I change myself to look exactly like the queen? How much larger is “significantly” larger anyway, can I get tall enough for the extra reach to matter in a fight? Can I change into someone much more attractive and get a charisma boost? Can I change into a humanoid creature with claws, and cut myself free of these ropes I’m tied with? Can I change into a magic humanoid creature whose hair is on fire and have my hair be on fire, then light a match off it? Can I change into a humanoid creature with wings, then fly? Hey, I just got stabbed- can I change into me, but without the open wound? If so, does that heal me?

This kind of thing can be brainstormed by a good player in about five minutes, and a lot of it will be shut down by a skilled Dungeon Master just as fast. You can see the scar tissue of it in the fact that some versions of this power are about a page long, mostly disclaimers of what you can’t do. It seems excessive, especially since the basic disguise power is both a fun fantasy trope and also not that complicated. Wouldn’t it be great to have a rulebook that wasn’t three hundred pages long?

And yet, that kind of clever rules-lawyering can lead to some fun moments in roleplaying games. 

Enter “Chicanery: No” and its partner, “Chicanery: Yes.”

II.

Here’s the idea:

When writing rules, game designers sometimes want you to explore the edge cases of an ability and try to push it as hard as they can. Other times, they want you to just do the obvious, sensible thing. 

This often affects an ability’s power budget. If the designer things there’s potentially for impressive combinations or edge cases, they’ll often deliberately make an ability weaker than it otherwise would be. If the designer carves away any of the toe-holds a munchkin would use, they’re often willing to make the ability stronger. But listing what you can’t do with an ability is kind of a game of whack-a-mole, and usually makes the description in the rules longer. So, what if instead there was a single line on powers that just said “Chicanery: Yes/No” and if it was Yes the player was invited to get crazy with it, vs if it was No when the DM is encouraged to be conservative in interpretation?

I like this idea.

I’ve never seen it used explicitly in a game, though I often interpret detailed and complicated rules as inviting a bit of Chicanery. In Magic: The Gathering, basically anything technically complying with the rules is valid. In Microlite20, rules-lawyering seems rude.

Other situations invite more or less Chicanery. Recipes are Chicanery: Yes, if you want to bake that pumpkin pie with a bit of cardamom go for it. Taxes are archetypically considered Chicanery: No, if you think you’ve found a creative loophole to get away without paying taxes the IRS is probably not going to be amused. 

I want to note that Chicanery isn't about whether or not you can break rules. That's a whole different topic. Chicanery the way I'm using it here is about how far you push interpretations. On the Yes extreme, you have the unfounded versions like "hey, does a Fireball spell provide motive thrust for a rocket? On the No extreme, you have the kind of heavily supported, obviously within-bounds uses like a fireball dealing 1d6 damage per caster level or posting "I plan to vote against that candidate" in the USA. At the very far end of Chicanery: No you get things like Marit Ayin, where something is banned that looks too much like it's breaking the rules, even if it perfectly follows them.

The term of art in game design for phrase attached to an ability or character which doesn't do anything on its own but toggles other rules and interpretations on or off is a 'tag.' Thus, this would be called a 'Chicanery tag.' 

III.

How about social norms?

There aren’t explicitly, universally agreed upon social norms. There’s general principles, there’s common wisdom, there’s Miss Manners, but none of those are ironclad. And so, it depends. Generally I think American society is Chicanery: No though. Consider the following examples:

First, there’s a sense of what’s racist to say. You might think if you’re clever it’ll be fine. Observationally, “I don’t think this is technically racist, surely if I say it nobody will be mad at me” has not been a successful strategy the last ten years.

Second, if you come up with something wildly and completely unexpected, you will find there’s often a rule that basically reads ‘don’t come up with anything wildly and completely unexpected.’ How about painting a jellyfish 

You will find subcultures where particular kinds of Chicanery are welcome! “Write very long BDSM/Decision Theory/Dungeons and Dragons fanfic [LW · GW]”[1] turned out to be basically fine for one of the two authors. The other author, as I understand it, firmly does not want to be publicly connected to it.

Third, consider pornography. Sure, sure, you know it when you see it, but consider: If you have to ask, "hey, I'm not sure and this is an edge case, but do you think this is pornographic?" then it probably got banned from Tumblr in 2018. The rule doesn't have to be all encompassing to not be welcome in a first grade classroom. I'm not going full "Michelangelo's David is naked, therefore it's porn" here. Instead I'm pointing out that the edge cases tend to be ruled conservatively in many cases, and for good reason.

How about truth?

Sometimes stretching the truth is invited. If I'm telling you a story about a fish me and my uncle caught, it was this big, fought like the devil. . . yeah that story has a bit of chicanery in the details, parts exaggerated for effect even if they is a kernel of truth there. If I'm on the witness stand having been just sworn in for testimony, my words ought to have a strict relationship to what actually happened as best I know it. 

(This suggests we might also benefit from a 'Chicanery: Medium' or a 'Chicanery: You know, the normal amount'. On the other hand, Chicanery is most useful in places where precisely specifying the lines isn't worth it.)

IV.

A few days ago I talked about the rules on forum moderation [LW · GW], using that as a jumping off point into the writing of rules in lots of cases. The Chicanery tag is another lens by which to view rules.

A rule on profanity might be fine with edge cases. I dimly remember a Star Wars MMO I played growing up that had a No Profanity rule, whose mods cheerfully ignored any swearing done using the alien languages from the novels. There was less wiggle room when it came to linking porn, though someone probably could have gotten away with pictures of Princess Leia in a golden bikini. 

Consider a drug policy. If the federal government asks you're taking any illegal drugs and you respond with "it's a legal gray area" then I predict that conversation is not about to go well for you. If it's a nootropics conference, I think you're fine. If anything, they might give you a high five.

LessWrong is in theory a forum about rationality. Astral Codex Ten meetups are about ṛta Scott's blog. If LessWrong wrote down rules, they might write them as "talk about rationality (Chicanery Yes) and don't post porn[2] (Chicanery: No.)" If Astral Codex Ten meetups wrote down rules, they might write them as "talk about Scott's blog (Chicanery: Yes) and don't doxx people to newspapers (Chicanery: No.)"

When writing or reading rules, consider how much Chicanery seems reasonable or expected.

  1. ^

    Pathfinder fanfic, not D&D fanfic. I am the exact kind of pedant who cares about that distinction, I'm writing this for an audience that might not know what Pathfinder is.

  2. ^

    I actually don't know what the LessWrong team's stance on porn is. 

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comment by Said Achmiz (SaidAchmiz) · 2025-02-06T11:00:16.625Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

I think that this is a bad concept.

I think this primarily for anti-Gell-mann-amnesia reasons, i.e. I am very sure that this is a very bad concept as applied to TTRPG design/implementation (a topic on which I am quite knowledgeable), so I conjecture, even before thinking about it directly, that it is also a bad concept as applied to the other things that you are applying it to (in which I would not claim as much expertise). (My weak impression from thinking directly about those other cases agrees with this, but that is not the main thrust of my comment.)

In the rest of this comment, I’ll explain why I think that this is a bad concept as applied to TTRPGs.

In a well-designed TTRPG of comprehensive scope (such as most editions of D&D, and Pathfinder), the optimal amount of “chicanery”, as you define it, is simultaneously “absolutely none whatsoever” and “the maximum possible amount”, in all circumstances. Obviously, this cannot be true unless “chicanery” is a nonsensical, contradictory, or otherwise useless concept.

But why do I claim that this is true?

The ideal way that things like alter self should work is that they should be completely robust to attempts to “rules-lawyer” or “break” them, while also implementing the fun fantasy trope and not being very complicated, while also allowing for player creativity and flexible usage.

The way that these desiderata can be satisfied simultaneously in a single design is for the DM to have a consistent, coherent, and complete world-model, and for all answers to player questions about the world as apprehended by their characters, and all responses to declared player character actions (those being the exactly two ways in which players of a traditional roleplaying game—i.e. one with no or almost no dissociated mechanics—may interact with the game world), being generated by querying that world-model. Under this view, game rules are understood to be components of the definition of the DM’s world-model (and should be written accordingly—a dimension along which D&D and related games has certainly varied, between and even within editions and versions).

If this approach is done correctly, then you can, at all times and in all circumstances, both “do the obvious, sensible thing” (as far as interpreting any ability or other aspect of the game world), and allow players to “explore edge cases” and otherwise optimize as they please. This is very easy, when the answer to all questions about how a character ability (or anything else whatsoever) works is a query to the DM’s world-model. What does this ability actually (in the game world) do and how does it do it? Whatever is the answer to that question, that determines what you can do with it.

(This approach—which has some overlap with what is sometimes called “simulationism”, but is not identical thereto—also creates the maximum amount of player engagement and satisfaction, is the best at allowing newcomers to engage with the game, permits flexible switching between adventure and campaign styles, allows relatively easy reuse of old material even across editions, and has various other desirable qualities besides.)

This approach maps to “maximum chicanery”, because it allows players to push everything as hard as they please, look for edge cases to exploit, optimize, etc.

It also maps to “no chicanery”, because the DM interprets everything in the most conservative way possible: “what does this actually do and how does it actually work, within the game world” is the way that all questions are answered. (Note that this applies when interpreting the rules, as distinct from designing the rules; while a DM may take on the latter role, possibly quite often, the roles must be cleanly separate conceptually.)


Let’s consider the hypothetical form-changing ability example again:

Imagine a magic power in a roleplaying game that says “You may change your features to look like another humanoid. You can change your entire appearance, even your sex, but cannot look like something significantly larger or smaller, or anything that isn’t humanoid.” Imagine it being positioned as a basic disguise power, not too high level.

And suppose we decide that this form of magic changes your external qualities, but not your substance; you’re still made of the same stuff, just rearranged somewhat. We also consider how our world works, and decide that people can’t use magic (that they are casting themselves—as distinct from, say, drinking an unidentified potion) to turn into something that they don’t know about or haven’t seen.

And now let’s see how we might respond to some of the edge cases you list:

Can I change my features to have gold fingernails, clip my fingernails, and sell the gold?

We query our world model, and recall that you’re only changing your appearance, and bits separated from a whole that is under the influence of magic aren’t themselves under the influence of said magic anymore, so revert to their original forms.

Can I change myself to look exactly like the queen?

The question here is “is this a sort of magic that gives you fine control over details”? That’s a designer’s question, not an interpreter’s question. If the answer is “yes”, then—yes, with a suitable Disguise skill check (or equivalent), you can take on the semblance of the queen. Otherwise, nope.

How much larger is “significantly” larger anyway, can I get tall enough for the extra reach to matter in a fight?

Since you’re just rearranging the stuff you’re made of—probably not. (Note that if the system we’re using has size categories, then “significantly larger or smaller” would mean “different size category”, and the ability would probably be written that way.)

Can I change into someone much more attractive and get a charisma boost?

Charisma doesn’t come from appearance, so no.

Can I change into a humanoid creature with claws

Are there humanoid creatures with claws that you know about? If so, then yes, of course. Otherwise not.

and cut myself free of these ropes I’m tied with?

Can claws cut ropes? If so, then yes, of course. (And do the clawed humanoid creatures that you know about have the kinds of claws that can cut ropes? Not all claws are the same, after all…)

Can I change into a magic humanoid creature whose hair is on fire and have my hair be on fire, then light a match off it?

Are there magic humanoid creatures whose hair is on fire that you know about? If so, then yes, of course. Otherwise not.

Can I change into a humanoid creature with wings, then fly?

Are there humanoid creatures with wings that you know about? If so, then… etc.

Hey, I just got stabbed- can I change into me, but without the open wound?

This would be another instance of that “fine control over details” question above.

If so, does that heal me?

Well, it could hardly put the blood you already lost back inside you, but (if sufficiently fine control is allowed) it could stop bleeding. (Is there bleeding in the system we’re imagining?) Does that translate into “healing”? Depends on other implementation details of the system. (“What do hit points represent” is a much larger discussion.)

What we’ve learned from this exercise is that the description of the ability, as given, is insufficient to unambiguously specify a model specific enough that further details may be extrapolated from, but that the amount of additional specificity required for that is not very large. For example, the given description says “to look like another humanoid”, but does that mean “a specific individual humanoid [e.g., ‘Bob, the half-elf accountant’]” or “a kind of humanoid [e.g., ‘hobgoblin’]”? This isn’t a concession to rules-lawyerly pedantry, note; it’s a genuine ambiguity even in natural language, quite apart from any TTRPG application.


And this is applicable broadly. Famously, the D&D rule books (in some/most editions) don’t say that dead people can’t take combat actions. So (says the rules lawyer), can I keep fighting, even though I’m dead? We query our world-model and answer: obviously dead people cannot take combat actions, because they’re dead. What if (says the creative out of the box thinker) I want to murder someone, so I stuff their roast chicken full of rat poison—does this kill them dead, even though normally one does get a saving throw against poison and the effect isn’t “death” even on a failure? Well, the rules technically don’t have any provision for “stacking” doses of poison to increase their saving throw DC, or… but our world-model says: no, don’t be silly, of course that works; that guy is gonna be as dead as that roast chicken.

You mention Microlite, where “rules-lawyering seems rude”. No! Rules-lawyering is no more or less rude in Microlite than in full-blown D&D 3.5! In both cases, we answer all questions—all of them, every single one, without exceptions—by querying the DM’s world-model. Microlite just gives the DM much less guidance for constructing that world-model than D&D 3.5 does (which is the price for having the rules be orders of magnitude faster to read and learn). If the hypothetical “rules lawyer” insists that the rules override the DM’s world-model—wrong. Wrong, in both Microlite and 3.5, equally. The rules constitute (part of) the definition of the DM’s world-model (as well as playing a large role in communicating the world-model to the players).

The DM’s world-model is the ground truth. Answers to all questions flow from it.

This completely eliminates “chicanery” as a coherent concept.