Heighn’s response to this argument is that this is a perfectly fine prescription.
Note that omnizoid hasn't checked with me whether this is my response, and if he had, I would have asked him to specify the problem more. In my response article, I attempt to specify the problem more, and with that particular specification, I do indeed endorse FDT's decision.
I'm surprised Wei Dai thinks this is a fair point. I disagree entirely with it: FDT is a decision theory and doesn't in and of itself value anything. The values need to be given by a utility function.
Consider the Psychological Twin Prisoner's Dilemma. Given the utility function used there, the agent doesn't value the twin at all: the agent just wants to go home free as soon as possible. FDT doesn't change this: it just recognizes that the twin makes the same decision the agent does, which has bearing on the prison time the agent gets.
...which makes the Procreation case an unfair problem. It punishes FDT'ers specifically for following FDT. If we're going to punish decision theories for their identity, no decision theory is safe. It's pretty wild to me that @WolfgangSchwarz either didn't notice this or doesn't think it's a problem.
A more fair version of Procreation would be what I have called Procreation*, where your father follows the same decision theory as you (be it FDT, CDT or whatever).
I (strongly) disagree that sentience is uniquely human. It seems to me a priori very unlikely that this would be the case, and evidence does exist to the contrary. I do agree sentience is an important factor (though I'm unsure it's the only one).
Hmm, interesting. I don't know much about UDT. From and FDT perspective, I'd say that if you're in the situation with the bomb, your decision procedure already Right-boxed and therefore you're Right-boxing again, as logical necessity. (Making the problem very interesting.)
To explain my view more, the question I try to answer in these problems is more or less: if I were to choose a decision theory now to strictly adhere to, knowing I might run into the Bomb problem, which decision theory would I choose?
I see your point, although I have entertained Said's view as well. But yes, I could have done better. I tend to get like this when my argumentation is being called crazy, and I should have done better.
You could have just told me this instead of complaining about me to Said though.
Note that it's my argumentation that's being called crazy, which is a large factor in the "antagonism" you seem to observe - a word choice I don't agree with, btw.
About the "needlessly upping the heat", I've tried this discussion from multiple different angles, seeing if we can come to a resolution. So far, no, alas, but not for lack of trying. I will admit some of my reactions were short and a bit provocative, but I don't appreciate nor agree with your accusations. I have been honest in my reactions.
Interesting. I'm having the opposite experience (due to timing, apparently), where at least it's making some sense now. I've seen it using tricks only applicable to addition and pulling numbers out of its ass, so I was surprised what it did wasn't completely wrong.
If you ask ChatGPT to multiply two 4-digit numbers it writes out the reasoning process in natural knowledge and comes to the right answer.
People keep saying such things. Am I missing something? I asked it to calculate 1024 * 2047, and the answer isn't even close. (Though to my surprise, the first 2 steps are at least correct steps, and not nonsense. And it is actually adding the right numbers together in step 3, again, to my surprise. I've seen it perform much, much worse.)
Agreed, but I think it's important to stress that it's not like you see a bomb, Left-box, and then see it disappear or something. It's just that Left-boxing means the predictor already predicted that, and the bomb was never there to begin with.
Put differently, you can only Left-box in a world where the predictor predicted you would.
I think we agree. My stance: if you Left-box, that just means the predictor predicted that with probability close to 1. From there on, there are a trillion trillion - 1 possible worlds where you live for free, and 1 where you die.
I'm not saying "You die, but that's fine, because there are possible worlds where you live". I'm saying that "you die" is a possible world, and there are way more possible worlds where you live.
I'm not going to make you cite anything. I know what you mean. I said Right-boxing is a consequence, given a certain resolution of the problem; I always maintained Left-boxing is the correct decision. Apparently I didn't explain myself well, that's on me. But I'm kinda done, I can't seem to get my point across (not saying it's your fault btw).
No, that's just plain wrong. If you Left-box given a perfect predictor, the predictor didn't put a bomb in Left. That's a given. If the predictor did put a bomb in Left and you Left-box, then the predictor isn't perfect.
Firstly, there’s a difference between “never” and “extremely rarely”.
That difference is so small as to be neglected.
And in the latter case, the question remains “and what do you do then?”. To which, it seems, you answer “choose the Right box”…? Well, I agree with that! But that’s just the view that I’ve already described as “Left-box unless there’s a bomb in Left, in which case Right-box”.
It seems to me that strategy leaves you manipulatable by the predictor, who can then just always predict you will Right-box, put a bomb in Left, and let you Right-box, causing you to lose $1,000.
The bottom line is: to the actual single question the scenario asks—which box do you choose, finding yourself in the given situation?—we give the same answer. Yes?
The bottom line is that Bomb is a decision problem. If I am still free to make a decision (which I suppose I am, otherwise it isn't much of a problem), then the decision I make is made at 2 points in time. And then, Left-boxing is the better decision.
Yes, the Bomb is what we're given. But with the very reasonable assumption of subjunctive dependence, it specifies what I am saying...
We agree that if I would be there, I would Right-box, but also everybody would then Right-box, as a logical necessity (well, 1 in a trillion trillion error rate, sure). It has nothing to do with correct or incorrect decisions, viewed like that: the decision is already hard coded into the problem statement, because of the subjunctive dependence.
"But you can just Left-box" doesn't work: that's like expecting one calculator to answer to 2 + 2 differently than another calculator.
Alright. The correct decision is Left-boxing, because that means the predictor's model Left-boxed (and so do I), letting me live for free. Because, at the point where the predictor models me, the Bomb isn't placed yet (and never will be).
However, IF I'm in the Bomb scenario, then the predictor's model already Right-boxed. Then, because of subjunctive dependence, it's apparently not possible for me to Left-box, just as it is impossible for two calculators to give a different result to 2 + 2.