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> maybe Gary Marcus-esque analysis of the pattern of LLM mistakes?
That is good. Can you recommend one?
Thank you.
> It's unclear if this implies fundamental differences in how they work versus different specializations.
Correct. That article argues that LLMs are more powerful than humans in this skill, but not that they have different (implicit) goal functions or that their cognitive architecture is deeply different from the human.
> Like, obviously it's gonna be alien in some ways and human-like in other ways. Right
It has been said that since LLMs predict human output, they will, if sufficiently improved, be quite human-- that they will behave in a quite human way.
> Can you say more about what you mean by "Where can I find a post
As part of a counterargument to that, we could find evidence that their logical structure is quite different from humans. I'd like to see such a write-up.
> Surely you would agree that if we were to do a cluster analysis of the cognition of all humans alive today + all LLMs, we'd end up with two distinct clusters (the LLMs and then humanity) right?
I agree, but I'd like to see some article or post arguing that.
Thank you. But being manipulative, silly, sycophantic, or nasty is pretty human. I am looking for hints of a fundamentally different cognitive architecture
That is good, thank you.
Yes, I agree with your point about most journalists. Still, I think well enough of the professors and AI developers that I mentioned to imagine that they would have a more positive attitude.
He is also maybe just somewhat annoying to work with and interact with
I have heard that elsewhere as well. Still, I don't really see that myself, whether in his public posting or in my limited interactions with him. He can be rough and on rare occasion has said things that could be considered personally disrespectful, but I didn't think that people were that delicate.
... advocating for a total stop... which might make AI lab... less likely to pay attention to him.
True, but I had thought better of those people. I would have thought that they could take criticism, especially from someone who inspired some of them into their career.
Thank you for your answers. Overall, I think you are right, though I don't quite understand.
At the time of Hofstadter's Singularity Summit talk , I wondered why he wasn't "getting with the program", and it became clear he was a mysterian: He believed -- without being a dualist -- that some things, like the mind, are ultimately, basically, essentially, impossible to understand or describe.
This 2023 interview shows that the new generation of AI has done more than chagne his mind about the potential of AI: it has struck at the core of his mysterianism
the human mind is not so mysterious and complex and impenetrably complex as I imagined it was when I was writing Gödel, Escher, Bach and writing I Am a Strange Loop.
Correct. That is why the original Turing Test is a sufficient-but-not-necessary test: It is meant to identify an AI that is definitively above human level.
What about a Turing Test variant in which such inquiries are banned?
That would be possible. Plenty of people don't know much about this topic. If you had such a judge, do you think actually doing a Turing Test (or some variant) for ChatGPT is a good ideaa
Nice! I am surprised we don't hear more about attempts at a Turing Test, even if it is not quite there yet.
That looks pretty close to the level of passing a Turing Test to me. So is there a way of trying a full Turing Test, or something like it, perhaps building on the direction you show here?
Do you think there is a place for a Turing-like test that determines how close to human intelligence it is, even if it has not reached that level?
ChatGPT isn't at that level.
That could well be. Do you think there is a place for a partial Turing Test as in the Loebner Prize -- to determine how close to human intelligence it is, even if it has not reached that level?
I thought there was a great shortage of cadavers. How did they manage to get them for a non-medical school, indeed for use by non-students? Also, I am quite impressed that any course, particularly in the Bay Area, is $60 or free.
Nice! Is there also a list of AI-safety corporations and non-profits, with a short assessment of each where feasible: goals, techniques, leaders, number of employees, liveness, progress to date?
I organized that, so let me say that:
- That online meetup, or the invitation to Vassar, was not officially affiliated to or endorsed by SSC. Any responsibility for inviting him is mine.
- I have conversed with him a few times, as follows:
- I met him in Israel around 2010. He was quite interesting, though he did try to get me to withdraw my retirement savings to invest with him. He was somewhat persuasive. During our time in conversation, he made some offensive statements, but I am perhaps less touchy about such things than the younger generation.
- In 2012, he explained Acausal Trade to me, and that was the seed of this post. That discussion was quite sensible and I thank him for that.
- A few years later, I invited him to speak at LessWrong Israel. At that time I thought him a mad genius -- truly both. His talk was verging on incoherence, with flashes of apparent insight.
- Before the online meetup, 2021, he insisted on a preliminary talk; he made statements that produced twinges of persuasiveness. (Introspecting that is kind of interesting, actually.) I stayed with it for 2 or more hours before begging off, because it was fascinating in a way. I was able to analyze his techniques as Dark Arts. Apparently I am mature enough to shrug off such techniques.
- His talk at my online meetup was even less coherent than any before, with multiple offensive elements. Indeed, I believe it was a mistake to have him on.
If I have offended anyone, I apologize, though I believe that letting someone speak is generally not something to be afraid of. But I wouldn't invite him again.
Thank you. Can you point me to a page on FLI's latest grants? What I found was from a few years back. Is there another organizations whose grants are worthy of attention?
Thank you. Can you link to some of the better publications by Wentworth, Turner, and yourself? I've found mentions of each of you online but I'm not finding a canonical source for the recommended items.
- I found this about Steve Byrnes
- This about Beth Barnes
Thank you! That is valuable. I'd love to get also educated opinions on the quality of the research of some of these, with a focus on foundational or engineering research aimed at superhuman-AGI XRIsk (done mostly, I think, in MIRI, FHI, and by Christiano), but that article is great.
Thank you. Also Sloman's The structure of the space of possible minds. All these are worthwhile articles, but I'd like to highlight Goertzel's discussion of kinds of embodiment.
Israel: "A monthly payment...Assistance finding a place to live...Free Hebrew classes...Probably quite a bit more." There is a basket of benefits: The point is to help in settling into the country.
In total, these are not a lot of money, but do ease the process of absorption.
Israel: "Waived taxes for 10 years!... (These may not be fully waived; maybe they’re just reduced. ...)." Reduced is a better way to say it. Various taxes, including income and property tax, are reduced.
The 10-year period you are thinking of is on income generated investments. from outside Israel. If you are American, however, that does not much help as the US government will then grab the tax (as there is then no "double taxation" issue for those 10 years).
"[p]rograms in...Israel require your physical presence in the country." You are expected to be moving here, but preliminary registration steps (which that sentence is mostly talking about) are usually done from outside Israel.
Where did you see that "Israel... tax[es] citizens living anywhere in the world"? I've never heard of that. Various sources state that it only the United States and Eritrea.
Delegation of authority -- "management by objectives" -- is the newer style of command since World War II. The lower-level commanders are given goals but are allowed to choose how to achieve them. This was only enabled by improved communication and control measures.
Thank you, organizers! Amazing virtual space and event! I hope that something similar can be done often.
If you have goals that justify working hard, like the satisfaction of a job well done; or hopes for a professor position; then do that.
If your goals justify not working hard, like enjoying your doctoral stipend while gliding through and then moving to some other profession, then do that.
New event post with the new online-events feature.
New post for the new online-event feature
New posting of this using the new online-events feature.
Thank you for the correction. When I joined one Gather Town event it was so hard to use that I can't say much about how it worked.
(This is the duplicate of a regular post as LessWrong does not support non-geographical events.)
to always have a set topic and if possible also presentation prepared.
These talks all start with a speaker. Do you mean we should have a set topic for the videochat rooms afterwards? It seems that the main event should provide a topic of conversation, though I admit that even then, breaking the ice is often difficult.
> Are you tracking where attendees come from? (% email, % type of Facebook group,
Not precisely, but the email list (opt-in and specific to this meetup series) seems the best. Back when SlateStarCodex was live, the link there was even more valuable.
> Do you know why the attendees come to a talk? (mostly for a speaker/topic, social interaction with like-minded people, other reasons?)
I do not really know, but I think that they are there to hear an interesting talk and specifically for the speaker, as different talks get very different numbers of attendees. A good fraction (half or more) stay for the conversation afterwards, so I guess they are there for that too.
> Is there something specific that you do for people who join for the first time, or give instructions on how to get the most out of the meetup?
The first two minutes explain how it works and encourage people to do things like turn on the video. What other instructions were you thinking of?
I like Icebreaker, but I noticed
I only participated in one Icebreaker. It would be good if someone who organized one of these wants to write up tips.
gather town? This simulates what you want pretty well, and deals with the issues stemming from 100 people in the same call trying to talk together.
Gather Town and Mozilla Hubs have scalability problems, and with Gather Town I kept getting stuck. But more importantly, I believe in seeing people's faces to built social contact. Having multiple videochat rooms solves the scale problem.
As LessWrong does not support non-geographical events, this event post is also a regular post.
As LessWrong does not support non-geographical events, this post is also an event post.
This duplicates a regular LW post (since lesswrong.com does not support non-geographical meetups).
This duplicates an event post (since lesswrong.com does not support non-geographical meetups).
This is a duplicate of the ordinary post, as lesswrong.com does not yet support non-geographical events.
This is a duplicate of the event posting, as lesswrong.com does not yet support non-geographical events.
I was thinking you should do a game like Hofstadter describes in "The Tale of Happiton" and the Platonia dilemma. Avoid destruction by cooperation, even if it is without coordination.
In coordination with the LW admins, this post also appears as an event-post, as LW does not support non-geographical events.
In coordination with the LW admins, this event-post also appears as a regular-post, as LW does not support non-geographical events.
(After discussion with the LW admins, this regular post presents this event-post, because events cannot be online/non-geographic.)
(After discussion with the LW admins, this also appears as a post, because events cannot be online/non-geographic.)
(This Event also appears, in coordination with LW admins, as a Post since online nongeographical Events are not supported.)
(This Post also appears, in coordination with LW admins, as an Event, since online nongeographical Events are not supported.)