Eye contact is effortless when you’re no longer emotionally blocked on it

post by Chipmonk · 2024-09-27T21:47:01.970Z · LW · GW · 24 comments

Contents

    I started with a small experiment
    But a few needed individual help
    Facilitating rapid growth
    What attendees said
  The 100% eye contact party
    40 showed
    What it looked like [videos]
    What attendees said
None
24 comments

Story time! I wanted to run a fun party: "Make 100% eye contact or get sent to jail!" But I didn’t want to force people to make eye contact… I wanted everyone to be genuinely comfortable! How?

Consider: Eye contact is effortless without emotional blocks. If you have trouble making eye contact, you’re probably held back by emotional blocks. And these blocks are probably to help you stay safe… so forcing eye contact could even be harmful!

So what if I helped attendees notice and integrate their blocks?

I started with a small experiment

May 20, 2024. (Yes, that’s my eye.)

Here’s how I remember improvising the first activity:

Close your eyes. Settle in…

Recall a time where you felt really comfortable making eye contact. When it was natural and easy. What was it like?…

Bring on the feeling in your body… 

Does everyone have it? Raise your hand…

OK… Sit in that feeling for a minute… Remember this feeling…

In a moment, I’m going to tell you to open your eyes, and make silent eye contact with your partner while still holding this feeling, ok? … 

OK, open your eyes. Have the feeling… Do you notice any resistance coming up? Notice it… What does it say?…

Bring the feeling you want to have to the resistance, see what happens… 

Keep making eye contact, holding that feeling…

My strategy was to have each person notice the parts of them that liked eye contact, bring those parts into dialogue with their blocks/resistance to eye contact, and watch what happens.

For some attendees, this one activity was enough. Here’s what one attendee said:

The transition moment for me was when you prompted us to think about an occasion where eye contact felt easy. I thought about a cat that I once lived with, I would be proactively looking him in the eye and saying how much I love him hahaha. That felt very natural and easy. Then, with that feeling I was able to start appreciating the people that I was having eye contact with without the awkwardness. Also, more curiosity aroused as well!! (Since for me it’s easy to look at something for a long time when I’m really curious about it.)

After a few similar activities, most attendees had achieved comfort.

But a few needed individual help

For example, there was this one guy who was still having trouble. So I instructed him 1-on-1 using not-dissimilar methods. At some point, I asked him what his resistance said, and to his own surprise, it said I’m afraid of heartbreak.

So it seemed like, in his mind, sometimes when you make eye contact with others, you fall in love with them… and sometimes that’s followed by heartbreak. (Which he would like to avoid.)

So, in a way, his avoiding eye contact was completely rational. (Or rather: locally optimal.) If he had crudely forced himself to make eye contact, it’s quite possible that he could’ve actually gotten hurt.

Next I asked him, “How would you like to manage those risks?”

He thought about it for a moment, said something about making eye contact with a different mindset. It seemed reasonable to me so I didn’t question it.

My final instruction: “How does what you want to be doing/feeling feel in your body? … Allow that feeling as much as you can.”

He had no trouble making infinite eye contact after that.

Facilitating rapid growth

Part of my motivation for running this event was to practice facilitating rapid personal growth for a whole group of people at the same time.

Usually, I only do this one-on-one. For example, the techniques I led the group through were very similar to the techniques I led this man who claims to have resolved his lifelong anxiety after talking to me once [LW · GW] through. (Yes, wack, I know.)

Within an hour, all fifteen attendees were enjoying present, continuous eye contact!

We stress-tested this with one-on-one conversational eye contact, silent eye contact, group conversational eye contact, and everything else we could think of… and went undefeated.

Everyone clapped!

What attendees said

For a moment, the vibes of this event reminded me of a molly party I was at last week.

 

Since your event [two weeks ago], I'm far more aware of both the eye contact I give and the eye contact I receive. I'm especially aware of how good I feel when I receive it and so I've been trying to give it out more, anticipating that others feel the same.

The 100% eye contact party

The party needed an eye contact enforcement mechanism. (Without one, attendees would forget about the eye contact and it would devolve into — god forbid— a normal SF party.)

So I designed a dictatorless dystopia:

Three strikes and you must go to jail. One strike each time you're caught not making eye contact during conversation. Please give strikes to autist offenders. Please send three-strikers to jail.

​To attain parole, you must make silent, present eye contact with another jailee for two minutes straight. […]

Now all I had to do was craft a catchy thumbnail:

 

and title:

make eye contact or go to jail

and invite people.

40 showed

I began the event by facilitating activities like those from before. It was definitely harder with more than twice as many pairs of eyes, but for the most part, it worked.

For the people who needed extra help, I offered 1-on-1 assistance.

What it looked like [videos]

[Lesswrong doesn't allow video embeds, but you can see a the clips on my blog here.]

(Group eye contact was so goofy!)

What attendees said

The design made it easier to access a range from flirty and fun to deep and serious. The event was higher intensity by default.

It was super super intense. I remember desperately wanting it to be over, but it was still a lot of fun. My first 1-on-1 conversation was very fun and lasted over an hour.

The jail was a hilarious idea and added excellent vibes.

 

Eye contact was kinda hard and I went to jail a lot… but I had a lot of good conversations, and the party felt very intimate.

I liked experimenting with eye contact from different heights. I made eye contact while looking down for almost the first time and felt stronger.

 

I felt very connected to everyone afterwards and felt very open, present and happy.

Overall, I think it really worked! I'm excited to run more events like this.

24 comments

Comments sorted by top scores.

comment by mako yass (MakoYass) · 2024-09-27T22:31:36.945Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Why was it just assumed that "emotional blocks" are bad though? I would expect this to be more effective if you were... more inclined to unpack that assumption and explain it.

But of course, if you unpack the assumption, it might turn out that it was wrong.

Here are some bad things that often happen to people who over-connect: They become tribalized. They come to feel that they need the approval of an incoherent set of philosophies. They develop a news addiction [EA · GW], as well as substance addictions. They have difficulty sustaining interest in specialties and devoting themselves to original work, they find it lonely and they can't separate their own sense of what is important from the already exhausted common sense of what is important. They're unable to condemn mundane evils. They file down any of their burs and eccentricities that would make it challenging for another person to face them and to see into them.

You think you can overconnect without these sorts of things happening to you, but if that's true, I'm not sure what kind of connection you're even engaging in. Most of these things seem to me a fairly direct effect of love, of those systems that cultivate trust by verifiably tearing down protective psychosocial barriers.

Replies from: Chipmonk, Viliam, Chipmonk
comment by Chipmonk · 2024-10-04T20:54:43.354Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

How about this? Edited the post:

Story time! I wanted to run a fun party: "Make 100% eye contact or get sent to jail!" But I didn’t want to force people to make eye contact… I wanted everyone to be genuinely comfortable! How?

Consider: Eye contact is effortless without emotional blocks. If you have trouble making eye contact, you’re probably held back by emotional blocks. And these blocks are probably to help you stay safe… so forcing eye contact could even be harmful!

So what if I helped attendees notice and integrate their blocks?

Replies from: MakoYass
comment by mako yass (MakoYass) · 2024-10-04T21:57:58.300Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

That addresses the concern.

Replies from: Chipmonk
comment by Chipmonk · 2024-10-04T22:00:52.535Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Thansks!

comment by Viliam · 2024-09-28T20:20:00.761Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

This is something that in my opinion would deserve a longer focused debate, because I believe that you are pointing roughly in a direction of something that definitely exists, but I also think that your conclusions are exaggerated and wrong.

Like: look in the eyes - release oxytocin - get stronger ingroup feelings, yes, there is definitely a mechanism for that. But I think if we made a survey of people that would measure how much they look each other in the eyes and how tribalistic they are, it would be mostly noise. Or maybe I'm wrong, dunno.

Replies from: MakoYass
comment by mako yass (MakoYass) · 2024-09-28T20:46:42.985Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

This is something that in my opinion would deserve a longer focused debate

I'm not sure I have much more to say (I could explain the ways those things are somewhat inevitable, but I don't believe it's really necessary, just like, look at humans.), since I don't really know what to do about this, other than what I'm already doing, which is building social environments where people will no longer find it necessary to overconnect/where being intentional about how we structure the network is possible, and I would guess that once it is real and I can show it to people, there will be no disagreements about whether it's better.

But in the meantime, we do not have such social environments, so I can't really tell anyone to stop going to bars and connecting at random. You must love, and that is the love that there is to be had today.

Replies from: Viliam
comment by Viliam · 2024-09-29T20:33:43.996Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

I respect your effort to build an environment matching your ideals.

comment by Chipmonk · 2024-09-27T22:35:52.688Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Why was it just assumed that "emotional blocks" are bad though

Sorry, where in the post did I imply this? I tried to emphasize how they're locally optimal

Replies from: MakoYass, Chipmonk
comment by mako yass (MakoYass) · 2024-09-27T22:44:08.512Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

I think people will generally assume that when you're doing a thing, that you think the thing is usually good to do, unless you say otherwise. Especially if it's the premise of a party.

all I needed to do was help everyone safely untangle their blocks

The assumption that you could do this implies that you thought the blocks were usually unwarranted. I doubt this. I think in most cases you didn't understand why the fence was there before tearing through it.

Replies from: Chipmonk
comment by Chipmonk · 2024-09-27T22:48:29.017Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

i see

hm that's why i put "safely" werp

Replies from: MakoYass
comment by mako yass (MakoYass) · 2024-09-27T22:55:09.859Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

So, again, you did guess that you'd be able to do that for everyone, and I disagree with that.

I think most of the people who have difficulty making eye contact and want to overcome themselves on it are not in a good place to judge whether they should.

comment by Chipmonk · 2024-09-27T22:39:06.119Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

So all I needed to do was help everyone safely untangle their blocks ;)

 

bring those parts into dialogue with their blocks/resistance to eye contact, and watch what happens.

 

So, in a way, his avoiding eye contact was completely rational. (Or rather: locally optimal.) If he had crudely forced himself to make eye contact, it’s quite possible that he could’ve actually gotten hurt.

Next I asked him, “How would you like to manage those risks?”

Replies from: MakoYass
comment by mako yass (MakoYass) · 2024-09-27T22:44:46.363Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

I'm aware that you have a nuanced perspective on this which is part of the reason I'm raising this.

comment by Parker Conley (parker-conley) · 2024-09-28T21:47:58.795Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

[I only skimmed the post so you might have addressed this, but…]

I once met a sometime who made super intense eye contact all the time, and it gave me weird vibes. Sort of uncanny valley vibes, if I try to put words to it? It was like they were staring at me in normal conversation. One hypothesis I had as to why is that maybe he did one of these type of activities that you outline here (iirc, I was introduced to the idea being a thing through an old LW post on scientology doing it?).

Epistemic status: I don’t know if an event like this was the cause of this person’s intense eye contact. I don’t know if anyone at your events has this result. But just thought I would mention it in the off chance that “getting in the habit of giving super intense eye contact” is a possible failure mode of doing activities like this.

Replies from: Chipmonk
comment by Chipmonk · 2024-10-04T22:01:36.968Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

please see the new version of the intro and read the full post

comment by cata · 2024-09-27T22:13:28.151Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Why do you feel so strongly about using so much eye contact in normal conversations? I sometimes make eye contact and sometimes don't and that seems fine.

I agree with your sentiment that being very uncomfortable with eye contact is probably an indication of some other psychological thing you could work on, but it sounds like you maybe feel more strongly about it than that.

Replies from: Chipmonk
comment by Chipmonk · 2024-09-27T22:27:48.377Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

I just thought it'd be a fun party

Replies from: Chipmonk
comment by Chipmonk · 2024-09-27T22:28:37.848Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

ill add that to the post, thx

comment by rotatingpaguro · 2024-09-28T12:34:02.334Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

I don't make eye contact while speaking but fix people while in silence. Were there people like me? Did they managed to reverse this? The way I feel inside is more like I can't think both about the face of someone and what I am saying at once, too many things to keep track of.

Replies from: Chipmonk, MakoYass
comment by Chipmonk · 2024-09-28T15:41:32.908Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Yeah for many people it was hard to both make eye contact and think at the same time. Some of them told me that this changed what they spoke about.

Personally I have a very hard time recalling the past or thinking very logically while making eye contact

comment by mako yass (MakoYass) · 2024-09-29T21:39:25.846Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

This can be quite a bad thing, since a person's face often tells you whether what you're saying is landing for them or whether you need to elaborate on certain points (unless they have a people pleaser complex, in which case they'll just nod and smile always even when they're confused and offended on the inside lmao). The worst I've seen it was this discussion with Avi Loeb where he was lecturing someone who he had a disagreement with and he actually closed his eyes while he was talking and although I'm sure it wasn't fully self-aware about it, it was very arrogant. He was not talking to that person; he must waste a lot of time, in reckonings, retreading old ground without making progress towards reconciliation.

comment by Lorec · 2024-09-28T14:49:17.664Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Have you read Byrnes [? · GW] on how we should expect certain emotional reactions to seemingly prohibitively complex stimuli, to be basically hardcoded?

I think I have learned a certain amount of my eye-contact-aversion, but I also suspect it is hardcodedly unusually difficult for me. When I was younger, my parents and teachers constantly harangued me to "get better at eye contact", and I really tried [I hated their haranguing!] but the eye contact itself was just too emotionally painful.

When I first went on Ritalin in November of 2020, I immediately noticed that it became much more possible to voluntarily choose to sustain eye contact with most people for ~3-10-second periods; I was excited and thought maybe I could make the whole aversion go away. But that didn't work either. It stayed effortful, although easier.

I still don't make much eye contact, and at this point in my life nobody ever remarks on it, and it causes no problem at all. I regularly meet people who are worse at it than I am, and some of them seem to have less of a general social handicap than I do!

comment by Gordon Seidoh Worley (gworley) · 2024-10-03T15:37:32.934Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

One practice we have done at times at my Zen center during sesshins is eye gazing practice. In it, you sit across from someone and just look into their eyes silently for several minutes while they do the same. That's it. Simple, but really effective way to feel into the nonseparate, embeddedness of living.

comment by Vlad Sitalo (harcisis) · 2024-09-28T22:07:05.513Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

[Lesswrong doesn't allow video embeds, but you can see a the clips on my blog here.]

fyi just posting in the youtube link should work (transform into embed), I wish the UX was more obvious tho