The Four-Hour Body by Timothy Ferriss - any LWers tried it?

I have been on the slow-carb diet a few months now. It's working very well indeed ... for me personally. It's working because I like all the foods on it - it suits my personal tastes - and dropping 15kg in just a few weeks left me feeling enormously better and bouncier, which is strong incentive to keep to it.

Also, the Cheat Day strikes me as genius, just as practical psychology. I expect this to show up in fad diets in the future.

I wrote a long blog post about it, when I feared that telling friends had risked other-pessimising. Basically: a fad diet will work for its inventor, but not necessarily for anyone else - either because it just doesn't seem to match their metabolism (as you found with the Shangri-La diet) or because the subject finds it near-impossible to keep to (e.g. some friends on the Slow-Carb Diet).

(The real problem is that civilisation has more or less solved the food problem, but our genes don't know this, so we pack on the fat in anticipation of lean times that never come. To lose weight in a world of abundant food, we need to behave unnaturally. And different people's metabolisms seem to require different unnatural behaviours.)

It's plausible that it works for me because, like Ferriss, I have a lot of Scandinavian and particularly Danish ancestry - so stuff that works for him might work well for me too. Worth a try! I have no idea if it works for Ashkenazi Jews, but he doesn't say it doesn't ...

I haven't tried the exercise stuff yet, because I am lazy. I have taken to stairs rather than elevators or escalators and to walking a lot, though.

I must recommend strong caution concerning Tim Ferriss' grasp of what constitutes evidence. I tried tracking down his claim that the ECA stack (which he does correctly describe as a dangerously bad idea) was scientifically proven. When I traced back through the citations he gave - as detailed in my blog post - I ended up at text deleted from an old Wikipedia revision because it was covered in [citation needed]. So assume everything he says works for him, but test personally - any scientific explanation he gives may be correct, may be almost-correct or may be made entirely of magical pink unicorns.

I tried it (for building muscle), kept to the instructions fairly strictly and saw improvements over my regular workout, but nowhere near the results described in the book. Much of the book makes sense, but it might be overly specific to his own physiology, and/or have non-functional components mixed in by mistake.

Having lurked here for a while, I think that one of the reasons that some LWers have difficulty with exercise and diet is due to a crisis of optimization: given the wildly divergent claims of popular fitness gurus and the murky state of exercise science research, it's hard to know where to start.

I'd suggest that exercise and diet are areas in which experience, persistence, and self-experimentation are unusually important. I've been engaged in the serious practice of some form of physical exercise for virtually all of my adult life, and somewhat more casually in the observation of others doing the same. Some thoughts in the context of popular 'quick fix' programs:

Doing something consistently for a long period of time, working hard, and working harder as you get better are much more important than what you do. Most exercise programs published in books or magazines revolve around 2, 3, or 4 month plans. Even if you're devoting a lot of time to it, that is nothing compared to the physically active lifetime of the average person. It's barely enough time to become familiar with the program, let alone excel in it. It's OK to try different things to find something you like, but when you do, stick with it.

Individuals are highly variable in their adaptations to exercise and diet, but also highly adaptable. Over time, you'll learn the more unusual aspects of your physiology. Be extremely wary of thinking anything as a limitation or weakness until you have considerable experience with it (by considerable, I mean on the order of years). Learn to work around problems by trying small variations, one at a time.

Everything works for beginners. As your "training age" increases, it becomes more difficult to make improvements, and the importance of record keeping, analysis, and outside coaching becomes more important.

High-intensity programs, such as the ones that are currently in vogue, are quite effective in the 8-12 week window that comprises most popular programs. This is why they're popular. When training becomes consistent, over a period of years, intensity becomes a tool that needs to be used more specifically.

Fat loss is a matter of caloric deficit. You can achieve caloric deficit through increased activity or decreased caloric intake. Decreasing caloric intake is faster and more effective for most people living the average western lifestyle, but doing both is best. In the context of fat loss, diet plans are an enabler for caloric deficit. Plans that emphasize special food combinations often work well, but this is subject to individual variation. The most effective parts of these plans can be summarized as: 1) don't eat crap, and 2) don't eat a lot.

There are three components to a well rounded exercise plan: strength, conditioning, and mobility. Do all three, consistently and over a long period of time. You'll figure stuff out.

I read 4HB. It is valuable, even if some of the methods won't get people the same results he had.

If the options are "status quo" or "give Slow Carb a shot," I vote Slow Carb.

If other options are on the table, or if Slow Carb fails you, I vote for

• http://www.archevore.com/get-started/
• The Perfect Health Diet (by Drs. Jaminet)
• a non-Cordain, non-DeVany attempt at Paleo. Most paleo folks would consider turkey & bananas not to be a good paleo diet foundation. I second EvelynM's meat + greens. Especially grass-fed red meat obtained from quality non-factory farms.

I've lost a good bit of weight within those three guidelines (added IF recently for even more health benefit), but YMMV.

And if you don't already, use thedailyplate or fitday or a similar service to track calories and nutrient ratios for dietary self-experimentation. Can't analyze the data if you don't track it.

Best of luck

I began today the Every Man Sleep Work Schedule, and will eventually state results here. I tried, for scientific purposes [cough] the 15 minute orgasm, and it did not work in first trial.

I very strongly suggest that people read only what they will actually do of the 4 hour body, it is an addictive book with content that is only useful if you will actually use it. I only read sleep and orgasm, and abdominal exercises (In fact, Tim suggests this minimal approach to reading in four hour workweek)
Don't overwhelm yourself with non-executable knowledge. Learn, do, memorize, make it part of you, then learn the next thing.

Funny, this article doesn't appear under the "new" articles list of LW, I just found it by coincidence when looking under Eliezers contributions. Is this a bug?

I have some relatively strong anecdotal evidence coming from a low-fat diet to a (somewhat) low carb diet, and from 4x/week strength training with lots of faster reps to 2x/week of exercise with very few slow reps, that the 4HB guidelines are on to something.

The biggest thing I discovered after listening to the patronizingly 4-hour-abridged 4HB audiobook is that there's very little relationship between (willpower, time investment) and benefit.

ridiculously valuable material, if true

Yeah, well... a lot of things are like that, trouble is you cannot tell if they are or not. Certainly the justification for the 4HB claims is grossly inadequate, and you, of all people, should have been able to tell that.

My opinion of the book (I read about 40%, cbb with the rest): 80% common sense, 10% stupid advice, 10% - who knows, but chances of it being good are low (a bit like religious texts, heheh). It's main value is that it is somewhat entertaining, and it might inspire some people to do some exercise.

I read it as soon as it came out, and tried the diet. I lost 5 pounds in 1 month. Then I quit the diet (kept the exercises) and lost 8 pounds the next month. No clue why. Since then I've incorporated some permanent changes to my diet: slow carb meals for lunch and dinner and a teaspoon of almond butter before bed. I still eat high-carb breakfasts since I can't stomach meat in the morning. Before the diet I was consistently 208 lbs (5'8). I'm currently 192 lbs, and have been around there for months (188-194).

I kept doing his most highly recommended exercises (kettle bell swings and cat-vomit exercise.) I also do squats, bench press, deadlift and dumbbell curls. I do less than 1 hour of deliberate exercise per week.

I think dieting correctly is not so much a matter of discovering an ideal list of foods, as discovering the many things that can go wrong. Some of those things are more complex than any particular food or chemical being good or bad; in particular, timing matters (multiple small meals is better than one big meal), and variety matters (though I'm not sure whether it's good or bad). The goodness or badness of many foods fails to generalize between people due to genes, gut bacteria, and other factors.

There are a few things about diet that I am confident of, though, and paying attention to them keeps me looking good in my cloak. Sufficient protein is important. Carbohydrates and sugars with a high glycemic index (GI measures absorption rate) are bad. Micronutrients are important, but easy. Sufficient fat is important, and specific fat types seem to matter, but I don't know how exactly. Greatly overeating on special occasions is bad, and probably worse than people think. Noticing how particular foods make you feel shortly afterwards is important.

I'm less sure of this one, but I suspect that varying the number of calories consumed per day by too much is probably bad, and skipping meals or finishing a meal unsatisfied is probably bad. My reasoning there is that in the evolutionary environment, those would be strongly correlated with food shortage and should therefore trigger energy conservation.

I've been following his Slow Carb Diet for four weeks and am very happy with the results. I haven't been weighing myself, measuring my waist, etc. but can just clearly see that I'm constantly losing fat. I'm pretty sure I've lost at least the twenty pounds of fat he promises. I also now have consistent energy levels and feel like my sleep is better (sleeping part could be placebo effect).

I've been trying the muscle building elements at the bootcamp, while eating lots of food, the required amounts of protein, and lots of milk. Over the course of a week (three workouts), I've gained 15-20 pounds and 0 inches on my waist (Body fat % have been sketchy).

I'm about to read it. Based on my knowledge of the guy, I expect the importance and expected efficacy of his findings to be exaggerated. But I definitely consider him worth listening to. I don't think he's consciously trying to con anyone.

A general caution about concluding that a new diet regime works: no matter what the change, if it involves food you don't normally eat, it's common to eat less calories initially; then you learn to like eating whatever the new thing is (possibly because of flavor-calorie learning - not sure how well proven that hypothesis is - I first heard of it from Seth Roberts) and are back to normal eating. There may be other placebo related reasons that support a new diet working only initially.

Also, some diets change water retention (higher salt -> more water held in your body), or amount of undigested mass passing through the GI tract, maybe in a good way - but changes in water weight won't continue indefinitely.

Overall judgement: I value each chapter of T4BBC as approximately equal to a well researched lukeprog post on the given subject matter. Tim's chapters tend to be well researched (relative to the genre of science popularization) and based on a mix of academic research, practices of prominent trainers and some findings from (systematic) self experimenters.

Personal experiences: I followed the diet and experienced significant improvements to cognition and mood as well as the obvious changes to body composition. Because carbs really do suck in the doses typically consumed.

The exercise routine (for mass gain) worked well for me. By which I mean about the same results as my typical gym experiences had been but in less time.

The meat + beans + greens diet works well for me if I skip the beans. None of the book is rigorous.

I found lots of things to experiment with, in it.

http://www.gnolls.org/ http://www.gnolls.org/2304/why-are-we-hungry-part-1-what-is-hunger-liking-vs-wanting-satiation-vs-satiety/ http://www.gnolls.org/2320/why-are-we-hungry-part-2-hunger-is-the-product-of-multiple-perceptions-and-motivations-sometimes-conflicting/ http://www.gnolls.org/2342/restrained-eating-willpower-and-why-diets-fail-why-are-we-hungry-part-3/

Conclusion: A Successful Diet Must Minimize The Role Of Willpower

The problem here should be obvious:

Restrained eating causes stress. Continually exercising your willpower in order to eat less food than you want—or different food than you want—is stressful.
Stress makes you eat more.

Full citations. The series is worth reading.

I believe I read all of the nutrition recommendations in the 4 hour body--as human nutrition is very interesting to me. I've done a lot of self-experimenting on the topic of nutrition. Timothy and I both share a deep interest wellness and looking like a BAMF, but I was still surprised that Timothy Ferris came to many of the same conclusions as I have.

Comments on some things I recall from his book:

The goal is to get lean (6-10% for males) and put on a few pounds of muscle.

The goal is NOT to get 1) super strong, 2) become a well-rounded athlete, or 3) health/longevity.

Ferris recommends ketogenic diets. Ketogenic (low carb) diets are marvelous for reducing body fat percentage. I have no reason to believe they wouldn't drastically reduce the body fat percentage of most sedentary individuals. It's also perfectly adequate for my strength training. (I am not able to do any conditioning on a ketogenic diet.) Without quoting specifics, this approach definitely works for me.

I often hear quoted 35-70g of carbs per day. I usually stay in this range and I have stayed lean (4 years of 6-10% body fat). And no, I wasn't always lean. I was quite fat before. It's often quoted by bodybuilders that 'abs are built in the kitchen'. Everything I trust that I have read supports this assertion. Everyone has abs, you just need low levels of body fat percentage to see them--and you lose most of your body fat by changing your diet.

Most of our badass, tarzan-looking ancestors would have stayed in a ketogenic state. For top notch information about the human diet read the Paleo Solution by Robb Wolf. The Paleo Diet's hypothesis is 'what did our ancestors thrive on and will it work for us?' (Answer seems to be yes.) There seems to be a ton of scientific support for the recommendations in the book. He has something like 50 pages of references to scientific literature.

The paleo diet is for people concerned with health and longevity--not really a goal of Timothy's book--as well as getting lean.

I didn't read much from the book on exercise. I have no reason to believe the "4 hour body" protocols wouldn't work for their intended purpose, which seems to be: helping high body fat %, sedentary individuals get to relatively lean levels of body fat and put on a few pounds of muscle.

I did not like the exercise goals of the 4 hour body. It's goals were too different from my own, so the program would not have worked for me. (My goals are to be big and strong). Timothy tries to stick to easily accessible, low-cost or equipment-less exercises. I already have intermediate levels of strength and I know it's not possible to maintain that with pushups and sit ups. I would need to incorporate gymnastics bar/ring work (not touched in the book) to develop an upper body and my lower body would be neglected as there's no way to emulate a 350lb squat without a machine or squat rack. THAT BEING SAID: If I'm strict, I work out 45 min or less 3x per week (barbell training) --thought I often slack off and skip entire weeks or only work out 2x per week and I can maintain or increase my levels of strength. So, I have a 6-9 hour body as opposed to a 4 hour body. (not counting travel time)

For muscle building/strength training: I would recommend the 'big 4 lifts'. Read 'Starting Strength' by Mark Rippetoe. Then read '5/3/1' a program by Jim Wendler.

For nutrition, modifying body fat %, health and longevity, read: 'The Paleo Solution' by Robb Wolf then read years worth of references.

I have not read the book.

For strength, the more similar the bodybuilding advice is to "do a moderate amount of very difficult compound exercises about once a week, more difficult every session," the more I agree with it.

For general health, I don't think four hours of aerobic exercise per week is enough at all. I try to get more than that. Is it really possible to survive half marathons and such on four hours of training per week? If there is a way to munchkinize running as there is for bodybuilding, I don't know it. The best things I know of are interval training and stair running.

Caveat: I didn't read the book and I'm not an expert. For me it doesn't make any sense. 4 hours a week is simply not enough for your body. According to some study even 30 min. a day is not enough. Just sitting 8+ hours a day has deleterious effects that exercise cannot make up for:

http://mashable.com/2011/05/09/sitting-down-infographic/

EDIT: If you want to live healthy it's really about changing the whole lifestyle, including dieting and the way you work(standing desk!). Just 4 hours a week won't cut it.

Funny, this article doesn't appear under the "new" articles list of LW, I just found it by coincidence when looking under Eliezers contributions. Is this a bug?

guys, i would encourage you to start somewhere! it doesnt matter if its with 4hb or something else...

you need to play with nutrition and exercise regimes. more importantly, retain self-control with respect to this endeavor and make it a part of daily life. as with everything, awareness increases as you deliberately practice.

join (or lurk in) other communities and access the enormous empirical data therein (bodybuilding.com, somethingawful's watch and woot forum).

feel free to get in touch if i can be of any help or guidance :)