The 50 Shades of Grey Book Club

This seems dangerous. Last time I did something like this, I became a huge fan of ponies.

I'm not sure this is such a good idea - it seems similar to the fallacy of privileging the hypothesis. Of all the different works of art I could spend time enjoying, why spend time on x, when x is selected for popularity, and not for factors more personally relevant?

http://xkcd.com/915/ seems relevant.

I'm not interested in participating, but if you'd like to read a rock critic doing the work to find what's worth appreciating in Celine Dion, I recommend Let's Talk About Love: A Journey to the End of Taste by Carl Wilson.

I am reminded of The surprising valor of Barbie movies:

I have a 5 year old daughter, which, in 2006, apparently means: I have a lot of Barbie movies to watch. What is surprising, is that these movies are AMAZING.

These movies have a spiritual strength, and a profound wholeness. They are well cut, well scripted, with excellent technique. The music is top-notch; the London Philharmonic Orchestra plays the music in at least one. The singing is spectacular. The lyrics are uplifting. The art is romantic (as in the era.)

You should consider yourself fortunate to have the opportunity to watch the following movies:

• Barbie As The Princess and the Pauper
• Barbie and the Magic of Pegasus
• Barbie As Rapunzel
  (In the order of my preference.)

This is not a joke. Allow me to refer you to the reviews on Amazon, if you doubt what I am saying to you here. I don’t know how it happened, but somehow, the Barbie staff pulled off something miraculous, and it went totally beneath the radar. This is talent to watch.

I haven’t listed the other Barbie movies, simply because I haven’t seen them yet.

To anyone who wants to try this sort of thing, my suggestion is to not do it halfway. A lot of people do it halfway in that they watch something or read something they otherwise would have thought was lame or stupid, and then they go around saying they "actually enjoyed it", except they add something like "it was so bad it was good". This isn't useful. It's just arrogance.

The best way to do this sort of thing is choose things that passed the market test for something relevant to you. If you're a guy in your 30s, reading something with 5,000 reviews on Amazon that's marketed toward teenage girls is not exactly going to be the most relevant choice. What would be better would be for example trying to learn how to appreciate music you think is "shallow and superficial", but you see a lot of people similar to you in other ways having a lot of fun with their friends listening to this music.

The goal is to change your mindset so you actually enjoy it, and actually appreciate it as useful and entertaining, rather than 'appreciate' it in some fake way, such as the whole 'it's so bad it's good' thing.

How is contempt defined here? It's confusing me and I would rather say certain things are not worth my time. Is contempt when I think something isn't worth anyone's time? I'm not sure if I find anything contemptible under that definition.

I see a big difference between really disliking something on the whole and appreciating one part of that larger whole.

The Transformers movie, for example, was not worth the 2 hours and $10 I spent to see it. I did like how the DP got the light to bounce around the room, and the desert explosions were cool, but overall, it was a terrible film and not worthwhile. I would have been better off not seeing it, despite the little things I did like.

How does that fit into this proposal?

It is very likely that there are already fans of all those works and activities among Less Wrong participants. It does not strike me as particularly polite to hold up these thing as contemptible.

Perhaps before engaging in this exercise it might be helpful to ask Less Wrong commenters what it is they like about these works/activities, so you could have the benefit of that perspective going in.

I really like the idea, and I would be interested depending on the subject matter.

While I have been mildly curious about the enormous success of 50 Shades, da Vinci Code, NASCAR & pro-wrestling... I'm relatively happy to conclude my disdain in the face of their otherwise widespread popularity is mostly likely based on simple preferential differences from my own non-typical mind, and the fact that lots of people like stuff about sex in general, murder mysteries/conspiracies, fast cars & muscle-y violence with soap opera-esque elements. I think I get why people like them a lot, and why I'm rather content to feel otherwise. Different strokes and all that...

I do like the proposed concept, however. I think it is a great skill to be able to "get behind another person's eyes" and go through the exercise of piecing together what it is they see in a given interest/pursuit/belief/lifestyle/etc. You may find something new that you really enjoy. And/or you may come to develop a more keen ability to empathize generally.

...

By the way, one suggestion for this project would be Jeff Dunham. I'm mesmerized by his success-to-funniness ratio. For me, he is the Anti-Comedian... but people love him.

So, I genuinely enjoy reading romance novels, but I don't have any reason to expect that 50 Shades would be up my alley. I also don't seem to have the problem of not being able to enjoy something quality because of contempt for other people that like it.

I have a friend who has done this with professional sports.

People are always amazed by how much "free time" I have. They're also amazed that I don't know who Ally McBeal is. Frankly, I'm amazed that they can't make the connection.

-- Robert Wenzlaff (via Eliezer Yudkowsky)

Already someone trying to live well would seem eccentrically abstemious in most of the US. That phenomenon is only going to become more pronounced.

-- Paul Graham

The function of entertainment is to generate profit and absorb people's time without actually accomplishing anything.

-- BadDalaiLama (via ata)

reconsider whether you need to read fiction at all. If everybody else thought immersing yourself in imaginary worlds was some strange perversion, would you still do it?

-- D_Malik

The idea is to start a thread for people to discuss 50 Shades, or something else perceived as trashy, and try to find what's likable in it.

The links in this MetaFilter post will make it harder:

http://www.metafilter.com/130778/Im-pretty-sure-Ive-read-this-book-before-but-with-vampires-in-it

Or maybe it won't.

But, seriously, I genuinely enjoy trashy, extremely problematic stuff like 50 Shades. I am curious to see a poll, too, to get a sampling of things that provoke, "I DO NOT GET WHY SO MANY PEOPLE LIKE THIS THE CONTEMPTIBLE FOOLS."

I cannot participate, but things that give me hives off the top of my head are Sex In The City and professional sports.

But, it's usually not the what but the why that makes me insane and contemptuous. Like, I don't mind if you watch hours of reality TV, but you better have a damn good reason, even if it's not easy to articulate. I have to trust you see something I don't, the metabolizing of which is gratifying to you in a me-approved way. /channeling-my-most-pathologically-judgmental-aspects-of-self

This made me hate Sex In The City less, though I'm still suspicious:

http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/television/2013/07/29/130729crte_television_nussbaum?currentPage=1

My girlfriend got me to watch Don't Trust the B__ in Apartment 23, which I insisted must be incredibly stupid based on the name and the few commercials I saw for it. It turned out to be really good, much funnier and darker than I would have expected.

Usually, though, when I think I'm not going to like something, I'm right.

I liked Da Vinci Code until people took it apart.

I actually liked 50 shades, once I got past the formulaic "a young and inexperienced but brave girl meets a sexy and powerful but troubled man" and the ever-present muggle plot, and I did not have trouble appreciating the good bits.

What I do not get is professional wrestling and its close cousin in poorly done fakery, professional porn. I have no idea how to find something worth appreciating there, even though millions of people get off on either.

I did a similar thing recently.

Someone scoffed at one of my hobbies and I thought "his loss". Then I remembered that most people are mostly the same, and figured that I was probably scoffing at something that another Walter enjoyed. Maybe he was more correct than me?

I decided to examine my scoff list.

The most prominent example of my sneering at a popular thing was the Twilight books. They were not "for" me. They were what teen girls read, or something? I knew I was supposed to hate their fans.

So I bought them and read them. It was a good time. I can see why they were so successful.

I bet this book club would bring about a similar result. 50 Shades probably isn't as successful as it is without being an enjoyable experience.

If you're interested in understanding why 50 Shades and for that matter Twilight are so popular, I recommend looking at the PUA/game blogs as well as evolutionary psychology.

Any non-gamers want an introduction to video games?

NASCAR, or professional wrestling.

Have you actually watched either of these, or are you going by the stereotype that kind of person who watches them is low status?

I wound up liking Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice after I realized that Austen projected her idea of an alpha male onto the character of Mr. Darcy. The same goes for Charlotte Bronte's characterization of Mr. Rochester in Jane Eyre.