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comment by ChristianKl · 2019-10-25T12:40:57.797Z · score: 4 (2 votes) · LW · GW

First the issue of " Exact Position ". From reading what you write it's unclear to me whether you think there are cases where the body has the same exact position at two different points in time or whether you see the term to refer to something very specific that's not repeated. If you see positions as something that can't be repeated anyway, thinking about how many there are doesn't really matter.

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You once speak about position as "How you are holding yourself. " afterwards you speak about it as being the sum of how all the joints in the body are positioned.

Those two are different. A lot of what falls under the category "How one holds themselves" is the soma and not the position that would be visible in an x-ray which you get by adding up the joints.

Any internal action of holding oneself in a particular way has effects on the external visible posture but it's not direct.

Even an action like shifting the way one holds themselves to be more in line with the objective position of one's body has effects.

I see the human body as constantly being in movement, following a bunch of different rhythms and engaging in processes of self regulation. From my perspective it's questionable to strive to optimize for the body being in a specific static position while ignoring the processes of self regulation that are going on at a given time. While you state what you consider to be good posture, I don't see an argument in your post why you believe this "good posture" to be desirable.

With a good posture the body feels comfortable at rest. Movement is smooth and free, with a sense of balance and ease.

This seems to me like a big claim. A person with a smooth heart rate with little variation is stressed (they have high HRV). I would expect that very smooth movement always comes with stress and that a sense of ease usually correlates with a bit of entropy (and thus nonsmoothness) in the movement.

comment by leggi · 2019-10-26T05:20:37.041Z · score: 3 (2 votes) · LW · GW
" Exact Position ". ... cases where the body has the same exact position at two different points in time or whether you see the term to refer to something very specific that's not repeated.

I am trying to distinguish between the position you think you are in (for want of better wording) v. the actual position (the aimed for position v. reality - if trying to do a pose). Positions can be repeated in my head although the phrase 'you can't cross the same river twice' comes to mind.

What I mean by 'exact position' is consider all the details of the whole body. Becoming aware of the whole though conscious proprioception.

When trying to explain my hypothesis many have asked for specific exercises, but it's about all the possibilities and having a full range of natural movement. Innumerable positions = can't be given a set of instructions. The kind of thought I'm working on but the wording's not great. I've been hung up on positioning because of the requests and trying to get the point across that there is no structured method to follow. Not a routine to copy, not a set of exercises or poses to work through, it's about feeling it for yourself..


You once speak about position as "How you are holding yourself. " afterwards you speak about it as being the sum of how all the joints in the body are positioned.

Do I? I can't see where. I want to shift the focus away from the positioning of joints and onto the condition of the main muscles when considering posture. (unless you mean in the current methods of postural analysis which focus far too much on the spine and joints in my opinion).


I see the human body as constantly being in movement,
it's questionable to strive to optimize for the body being in a specific static position

I agree. I want to use words like flow and fluid and dynamic. I'm not encouraging static poses, they are examples of "end-points" It's about regaining a full range of movement to be able to get to those points ...


I don't see an argument in your post why you believe this "good posture" to be desirable.

It's the bit you quoted.

"With a good posture the body feels comfortable at rest. Movement is smooth and free, with a sense of balance and ease"

It is a big claim - It's how I feel. It's what I feel, but I've never liked the wording (felt more like propaganda and so I've deleted it - thank you for the push... ). So I ask myself why I believe this good posture is desirable? Because focusing on these 5 main muscles of movement has changed my life and I feel better than I ever have done before, which I'll cover a bit in my next post - but my experiences are only hearsay. With this 'good posture' things feels natural, movement is easy, my body strong and balanced.


person with a smooth heart rate with little variation is stressed (they have high HRV)

HRV = heart rate variability? A smooth heart rate has a low HRV I would have thought?


I would expect that very smooth movement always comes with stress and that a sense of ease usually correlates with a bit of entropy (and thus nonsmoothness) in the movement.

This I would disagree with. Relaxed movement feels smooth and easy. A stressed body is tense and trembly.

A calm body has a lower respiratory rate (and therefore an increase in respiratory sinus arrhythmia i.e. increased HRV?- I'm just basing that on canine cardiology - it's a marked phenomenon in the species!)

Thank you for your thoughts, it's given me more to think about and assessing what I am trying to say!

comment by ChristianKl · 2019-10-31T14:46:08.897Z · score: 2 (1 votes) · LW · GW
Yes, somehow I messed that up. Smooth heart rate comes with stress and produces low HRV.iver twice' comes to mind.

I don't think you can have a coherent concept of position that allows for both of those notions. I think you have to decide for either a concept where a position can be repeated which implies there's some criteria that you can use to say that a position was repeated or treat it like a river that can't crossed twice.

I am trying to distinguish between the position you think you are in (for want of better wording) v. the actual position (the aimed for position v. reality - if trying to do a pose).

Thomas Hanna introduced the term soma to refer to the way the body feels from inside. In German we have the word "Leib" as distinct from "Körper" to also refer to how the subjective body felt from the inside.

How the body feels from the inside isn't the same as how I think my body is. It's quite possible for the two to derivative. A person with an amputated limb might know that they don't have the limb anymore but that doesn't mean that the soma of it isn't there anymore and can't hurt.

Reading Feldenkrais (Awareness Through Movement) or Hanna (Somatics: Reawakening The Mind's Control Of Movement, Flexibility, And Health) might be useful for exploring that space.

HRV = heart rate variability? A smooth heart rate has a low HRV I would have thought?

Yes, somehow I messed that up. Smooth heart rate comes with strees and produces low HRV.

comment by mr-hire · 2019-10-31T17:47:15.162Z · score: 3 (2 votes) · LW · GW

It might make sense to create this as a sequence using the LW sequence feature.

comment by leggi · 2019-11-02T10:05:48.797Z · score: 1 (1 votes) · LW · GW

Thank you for the suggestion. I just had a look at creating one but possible titles that came to mind ranged from crappy to cringe-worthy - I guess I'm not ready yet. Feedback and further thoughts means editing . It's all just words after the anatomy ....


comment by ChristianKl · 2019-10-25T12:43:44.170Z · score: 2 (1 votes) · LW · GW

Valentine (who was in charge of the CFAR curriculum for a while) wrote a post about posture that worth reading: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/5ETdDgqcr7Jqy4QGh/proper-posture-for-mental-arts [LW · GW]