↑ comment by Izeinwinter ·
2015-02-25T15:34:10.608Z · LW(p) · GW(p)
Been thinking this through all day now.
Situation at the start of the school year: The stone is in the mirror, and it is anticipated Voldemort will be attempting to retrive it.
Dumbledore is in possession of the true cloak of invisibility, and has "Flamel" on speed dial.
Harry is known to be a harrycrux, which means Voldemort will either be taking over his body, or at least checking up on him.
There is no way Dumbledore gives Harry the cloak without anticipating Voldemort using it against the mirror. He wasn't obligated to hand that thing over to a first year, as opposed to hiding it under the proverbial rock in Greenland. Probability this was a misstep so low I can't be bothered to calculate it. It isn't just that he would have to miss the potential interaction here, every other person involved in building the trap would have to also miss it. For an entire year. So it's a plot.
This is the point where my certainties become less certain - I think what is going on is that the trap is set up to give Voldemort the false impression of victory at every step of the way while at the same time trying to take him off the board in various ways. This is being done to avoid him fleeing via blowing up Quirell's skull.
This means either Dumbledore was a fake of some kind or if actually there, that he lied through his teeth agreeing with every point of fact Quirrel brought up in order to convey zero actual information. Beyond that I thought of so many possibilities for what the actual trap could be that my head is currently spinning.
Option one : The True Cloak of invisibility is no such thing. They made a ringer.
Option two: They flat out just cursed the darn thing.
Option tree: The cloak has funny interactions with spirits, and the entire point is to kill voldemort while he is wearing it.
Option 4.. you get the point.
I also think that there are likely plots in motion not related to the mirror at all - it would fit dumbledore's style to attack this problem at every possible point of intervention.
I am also fairly darn sure that Dumble knew or knows that Q is V - the phrasing used when professing surprise is just dripping with sarcasm.
I'm.. not at all sure Dumble actually has any unusual access to divination. See my earlier point about how he seemed to agree with every point of fact Voldemort raised, which has to be a disinformation tactic. Or the mirror just stroking his ego. Noone guesses that many things correct at this level of complexity on the first try.
Replies from: gjm, Astazha
↑ comment by gjm ·
2015-02-25T16:53:10.413Z · LW(p) · GW(p)
Harry is known to be a harrycrux [...] There is no way Dumbledore gives Harry the cloak without anticipating [...]
Supposing (though it might be wrong) that mirror-Dumbledore is speaking truth, it's not clear that he realises what Harry is until that point in ch17 where he starts laughing. Which is after Harry has received the cloak. (And, I think, after D. has promised not to take it away from him -- though he hasn't promised not to require him to store it somewhere secure away from Hogwarts.)
Replies from: falenas108, Izeinwinter
↑ comment by falenas108 ·
2015-02-25T17:40:23.855Z · LW(p) · GW(p)
That is when Dumbledore realizes Harry is a "good" Tom Riddle. We don't know when he realizes Harry is a horcrux.
EDIT: In fact, it's almost certain that Dumbledore realizes that Harry is a horcrux before that scene, or at least suspects it. It doesn't look like anything in that conversation in particular would make him realize that, and he clearly knows it by that point.
↑ comment by Izeinwinter ·
2015-02-25T17:20:42.415Z · LW(p) · GW(p)
The thing is, my reasoning doesn't actually depend on the horcrux realization, tough I give it better than even odds they knew that long before he even got the Hogwarts letter. Like, some time around the bitten math teacher or the science fair incident.
The cloak is the obvious counter to the mirror. Using it isn't some super-obscure piece of lore. The mirror has power over things reflected, the cloak removes you from that category. Put yourself in Dumbledores shoes as you are packaging up that thing after spending oceans of time and effort setting up the mirror.
Just No. This is not a plausible mistake. I'm shocked and a bit dubious Voldemort is buying it, but he does think everyone is a complete idiot, so...
If Dumbledore didn't want the cloak to be used against the mirror it would be stashed someplace very obscure. Or if he was feeling smartass, in the mirror itself. Handing it over to Harry was a deliberate move to put it into play.
↑ comment by Astazha ·
2015-02-25T17:04:18.771Z · LW(p) · GW(p)
I do assume that Dumbles operates on extensive access to prophecy as well as his own plotting, so it's possible that he gave Harry the cloak because he know this is required even if he doesn't know why.
One possibility I've been kicking around is that Harry will destroy this world with Quirrell in it (and the stars themselves) to take out all of his horcruxes, but will transport himself and much of the rest of the world into a mirror realm first. The mirror and it's contents will survive, and Quirrell will be left out of the mirror world escape because the cloak is covering him. I can't really make the details work in my head, but it's a scenario where the cloak becomes a liability to Quirrell.