Discussion: Socially Awkward Penguin as a tool for unraveling social enigmas

I used to be horribly shy and awkward. I didn't have a girlfriend in high-school, ever; I was (and am) clumsy as hell; I didn't (don't) get people. I had basically every common social nerd-failing. However, my problems with social awkwardness have been solved for some time now.

My secret? Not caring.

Well, that's the result, but I guess there are a couple reasons as to why I stopped caring. Easier said than done, I know, but hopefully the following monologue will spur similar realizations in others. (And if it's too long, control-F "robot".)

For one, I began to step back and look at these problems in a larger context: they don't really matter. I make a joke and no one laughs? No one will even remember this occurred five minutes from now, let alone a day or week or year. Even if they did, why would it matter - am I hurt by it? Unless the person who I'm trying to get a chuckle out of is my boss, who refuses raises to unfunny employees, then no - not at all, in any way.

For two, I realized other people don't really care either. They are rarely paying so much attention to you as you think, and rarely so judgmental as you fear. More interestingly, they often take their lead over what to feel awkward over from others. I learned this best by the example of a friend of mind, who appears to have been born without a sense of shame or awkwardness. He'd get caught doing something like passing gas and blaming it on the dog, and then just shrug and laugh about it... and magically, since he didn't act like it was something to be embarrassed about, no one else would think so either. (And if they did, as he'd say, that's their problem.)

For three, I am self-contained: my goals include making money, doing research, and reading good books. They don't include impressing random people in the grocery store or whatever. I know my worth - if someone presumes to judge me for [awkwardness x], the more fool them. Besides: strangers I won't meet again, and friends won't hold it against me. There are, of course, people who don't quite fit in either of these categories, like business associates; but as long as you're clean, polite, and do your job (the reason you're there, don't forget), then it won't matter what your personal failings are.

Finally, while the above has helped me, I suspect much of it is post-hoc justification for my attitude, which was mostly changed by a single mental trick. My big secret was: pretending to be a robot. Or Spock. Or a tech-priest from WH40K (praise the Omnissiah!). Or any one of a number of similar characters. What they have in common is that they have their goals, and nothing else matters. Human quirks of emotion are irrelevant. Would a robot care if it looked foolish? Not if it didn't interfere with its agenda. Would Spock be embarrassed by a mistake? No, he'd admit it and correct it. Would a tech-priest agonize over a breach in etiquette? He'd be too busy chanting over holy technology.

It may sound silly, but I hope I've gotten the point across. It's basically a version of "seeing yourself as the type of person who [x]", to take an example from a recent article. In this case, x is "being self-contained" etc.

These realizations have changed my life.... and oddly enough, I now find myself more popular than ever, apparently for not caring about being popular!

All this said, S.A.P. is an awesome meme, and I can totally identify with most of the pictures I've seen.

One thing that helped raise my confidence level and made many of these problems magically disappear is resistance training.

I'll just quote RAW on that:

Whenever you meet a young male or female, ask yourself consciously, 'If it came to hand-to-hand combat, could I beat him/her?' Then try to determine how much of your behavior is based on unconsciously asking and answering that question via pre-verbal 'body language'.

It didn't take much to get good results. After I put on 10kg (75->85 at 185cm) and got strong enough to actually do some push-ups, most people didn't feel threatening anymore.

(Well, and probably knowing that almost everybody will avoid fights at all costs, so you could do lots of damage even if you're a skinny nerd, but just are willing to actually attack. But only knowing this alone didn't do it, I actually had to gain some strength. I don't intend to ever actually get into a fight, but I run on hardware that cares about this crap.)

A little bit of reflectivity helped me a lot. When I say something stupid (it could be something socially awkward, or in the same way something obviously factually incorrect), I now see it as my brain failing me, without identifying with the error (I am a more long-term reflective process running on the brain, not its individual responses; I'm the one who noticed the error and will correct it, not the one who made it, if it's not the error of not training my brain better). I then look at the error and its causes, figure out a better decision, and try to train my brain the skill of noticing that situation and recognizing the better way of understanding it faster. This both reduces the negative emotional impact of making an error (less identification with its cause), and benefits the learning dynamic (more time is spent on solving the puzzle of how to do better, and not on blaming myself).

(There is of course a danger of falling into "not my responsibility, I don't care" mode. But your brain is still your responsibility, even if it's not the same thing as you. And teaching it important skills, such as generating more optimal thoughts immediately and not only on reflection, and not generating some wrong thoughts without needing to notice their wrongness on reflection, makes you stronger.)

This is not my original observation but I haven't seen it mentioned yet in this discussion:

The reason a middle school or high school student feels awkward, disconnected and asocial may not be that he/she has anything at all wrong with them. In fact, the problem may just be that middle school and high school are horrible places which encourage human beings' worst tendencies and stifle any opportunities for positive interaction and self-actualization.

If you feel awkward in the cafeteria at lunch time and you don't know or like anyone around you, that's because James Bond would probably feel awkward in that situation. I think part of the perceived awkwardness comes from asking yourself what you should be doing in this situation and not finding an answer. There is no action you can take that will make that situation not somewhat awkward. As an adult in that situation I might try to strike up a conversation with a stranger, but do not forget that middle schoolers are not adults. If you could rely on middle schoolers to be affable and collegial, we wouldn't remember those years as the worst of our lives.

I didn't realize any of this until I grew up, and I'm not even sure if it would have been helpful for me to know. If you tell a prisoner that it's okay, everything is fine after you get out of prison, that doesn't really help them much. Maybe as a fix I would suggest that young people try to become members of groups not related to school, such as Scouts and martial arts schools and sports.

Stranger at your table eats biscuits out of your packet. You're just speechless.

The ur-rule for social interaction is pretty simple, actually (in form at least):

Do whatever will raise your status. Avoid that which will lower your status.

(Edit: See wedrified's more nuanced explanation below)

Confidence is simply a proxy for a certain class of high-status behaviors. PART of that is not displaying concern at how your behavior is interpreted (because if you're worrying about your status, you're obviously low-status), but if your behavior isn't in the ballpark of "proper" already this will backfire (unless you're so high status that you can re-define what proper behavior is, or at least make people question their knowledge of it).

Of course, if you've got a busted status processor - and I suspect social awkwardness/social anxiety are essentially cases of faulty status processors - this is entirely unhelpful. But it does serve as a framework for organizing all the social advice you get, and will help give you an idea of what a proper answer looks like.

Try this: revel in moments that are awkward for everyone. Crave them. Love them. Seek them out, and bask in them when they arrive.

Becoming generally comfortable with others' palpable discomfort is something I've worked on recently, and I've found it useful. There are still a few situations that make me feel uncomfortable, but they're becoming fewer and rarer.

Suggested venues for finding universally awkward situations: introductions, elevators, first dates, locker rooms, job interviews, crowded transit, sales pitches.

Might not help you to understand social awkwardness or "the rules thereof", but this took away the power of awkward moments to make me feel shitty. Rejection therapy sounds like a similar idea, and I'd guess the benefits would be comparable.

Overcoming social awkwardness is difficult to communicate - it's like trying to communicate how to prove theorems to someone who's bad at proving theorems. Do you say "Think of more ideas," like it will help?

The beginning and end of it all is practice. There are two sorts - reading proofs someone else has done, and doing proofs yourself. Or rather, observing other people (both real and fictional, though fictional has obvious problems) and getting into social situations yourself. Practice:

1) Get used to using the basic forms (induction, proof by contradiction, what sorts of things people normally do).

2) See the connections to underlying structure (familiarity with broad results, watching peoples' emotions and desires).

3) Get better at thinking of things (seeing routes forward in the proof by connecting details, making social calculations quickly and comfortably).

There's also at least a fourth thing that I don't think is so familiar, and that's social courage. "Confidence" comes not just from having items 1 through 3, but from not flinching away from positive-expected-value things even if they're scary (for either genetic or cultural reasons). Asking someone on a date is an excellent example. It's nice reward for a tiny risk. Small even if you're friends with someone, and if they're a mere acquaintance it's negligible! But it's really scary, and it's so easy to rationalize about this sort of thing. The good thing is that courage is also a skill, and after the first few (dozen) times asking someone out, or to dance, or to come over for dinner, it gets easier.

A technique: I defuse awkwardness by smiling and (humorously) describing the situation. In other words, I recognize when an uncomfortable silence is about to happen, and break it immediately by talking. Using the examples from the SAP video:

• No one laughs at my joke: Say "Er, that was funny in my head, but I guess you had to be there"
• Someone mentions that I'm online 24/7: Say "I leave the computer on while I'm out or asleep"
• Holding the door for a person too far away: Say "I regret this. You'll have to run"
• I wave back at person not actually waving at me: I guess saying "Ha!" is sufficient to get an understanding. Maybe wave at both people.
• I trip over my feet: Say "Damn feet are in my way"
• I have just made a huge noise in a public restroom: Say "Ahhh"
• I don't understand what someone is saying, even after the third time: Interrupt and say "I still have no clue what you're saying. Is it important?"

I find that when I feel awkward, other people can tell. Unless they're remarkably understanding and poised, this tends to make other people feel uneasy enough that they too become awkward.

This tells very little about how to actually become less awkward, which seems to me to be mostly a matter of practice so that you know what to do, and somehow making yourself feel less self-conscious so that you don't start feeling awkward.

Well, here's an idea: how about this: let's ALL post examples of socially awkward interactions and post them all to a common website (maybe you have some examples that are highly upvoted on reddit's archives). Most of the people I talk to are socially awkward themselves, and they've gone through some pretty intensely interesting experiences. It sometimes alleviates social anxiety since you get an idea of what people tolerate and what they don't, so that you feel somewhat more confident about how people will receive you in real life.

Here's a facebook group full of examples:

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2204853322

if you've ever...

1. walked down the hall and someone you know is really far away but you dont want to make eye contact too soon yet you dont want to miss it so you look at them then look away...
2. gone in for a hug and had your arms the wrong way or your heads both go the same direction then you bump heads
3. kept bumping in to someone... they walk right you walk right, they walk left you walk left etc.
4. messed up a high five; theres many ways to do this believe me... high fived it when they went for a pound. high fived someone when they ment to highfive the person BEHIND you and so on.
5. waved to someone when they were waving to someone behind you
6. grabbing someone elses food [i.e. drinking someone elses smoothie...]
7. someone spoke to you in bad english and you just smiled and nodded yes when the question wasnt a yes or no question
8. awkward silences.
9. calling somones name when its not them.
10. calling someones name and they dont hear you so everyone stares at you when you look like your talking to yourself
11. awkward conversations in general
12. stuck talking to someone and you both slowly start walking different ways
13. saying bye and then walking the same way as that person
14. talking really loud when loud music is on and then people turn it down and you say something really loud
15. typing something while another person ims you and you always end up sending them really weird sounding things by mistake
16. Walking down the hall and being at the point where you know them but you are not sure if you know them enough to say hi yet, so you dont
17. having a hole in your pants
18. joining in on a random conversation followed by stares
19. when you're at a restaurant and the waiter says "enjoy your meal" and you say "you too" only realizing later that they aren't going to eat anything
20. talking about a group of people or people who are of a certain ethnicity/religion or whatever and having somone of that group be right there.. also talking about somone whos behind and/or next to you
21. and best of all you just love to make awkward smiles in pictures.
22. told a joke that no one laughed at (or one that only YOU thought was funny)
23. told a story that people respond with "here we go again" or "that was the most worthless story i've ever heard"
24. this group.
25. sang REALLY loud and then someone changes the station or whatnot leaving you singing REALLY loud for a second or two..
26. on facebook you think your writing back to someone but then a day or two later you realize you had written it on your own wall. yeah you're awesome
27. getting caught hooking up...by your parents
28. being in a different country where they dont speak english and saying something about someone and they understand you

...if any of these have ever happened to you, you're not alone. welcome, because who isnt awkward :) (read less)

There seems to be a real mix of the Socially Awkward Penguins. Some of them seem sort of funny and minor, while others seem demonstrative of actual mental illness. For example, multiple of those linked includes people "starving" because they are going out of their way to avoid social interaction.

Your "Socially Awkward Penguin" link goes to lesswrong.com/submit, perhaps you intended http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/socially-awkward-penguin?

(Lookie what I found here)[http://lesswrong.com/lw/298/more_art_less_stink_taking_the_pu_out_of_pua/2leh]

Huh, I just realized that Socially Awkward Penguin has an unexpected benefit. I can remember instances of when I totally didn't understand why people would act a certain way, then remember a point at which I'd either explicitly or intuitively grokked it. For, example: "Make joke, no one laughs. Friend repeats joke--greatest joke ever told in the history of comedy." (One of my close friends was the future homecoming king at a big high school.) It's weird to think that I didn't understand why that would be the default expectation until I was almost 17.

This discussion is a prime example of the failure of rationality among most lesswrong members.

According to seaworld.com "Penguins are among the most social of all birds. All species are colonial."

Do your research before posting this crap.

http://www.seaworld.org/animal-info/info-books/penguin/behavior.htm