Tesla Model 3 Review

post by jefftk (jkaufman) · 2023-01-17T01:10:01.582Z · LW · GW · 15 comments

This weekend I was in San Luis Obispo for a gig, about halfway between SF and LA. It's possible to fly into SBP, but since I was traveling with two of my kids it was a lot cheaper to fly into SFO and drive down, and only slightly slower.

I'm signed up with Hertz's reward program ("Gold") and one of the benefits is that you pick out your own car. When I got to SFO, there were several Tesla Model 3s in the "Gold" area. This was somewhat surprising—I had only paid for a small sedan ("B") and the Teslas are fancy ("E7")—but it seemed like it would be interesting to try one out and I liked the idea of not paying for gas. I got us loaded up but when I got to the exit the attendant didn't believe I'd gotten the car from the designated area, and said it would be a $50/day upgrade. I went back to the area, identified an apparently identical Model 3, and asked if I could have that one. They said yes, I moved kids and luggage over, and we were off.

I forgot to take a picture of the car—what sort of review is this?—but here's a picture of my kids enjoying the best seats on the SFO people mover.

This was my first time driving an electric car and the first thing I noticed was lifting your foot off the accelerator is very different. In a gas car you coast, slowing down a little from engine braking, but apparently in EVs you get regenerative braking. There's a sense in which this doesn't matter, and is just a question of where to put the "coast" point—at no pedal vs pushing down a little—but it doesn't immediately seem better to me.

The first evening was a short drive to San Jose. Getting out of the car, it was not obvious how to turn it off. Reading online later I learned that all you do is walk away, which is nice and automatic. But you'd only know if someone told you or you looked it up, and late at night after a cross country flight with two tired kids while poking at unfamiliar menu options on the dashboard tablet I was pretty frustrated with their minimally discoverable approach.

The next morning I was looking for somewhere adjacent to a charging location to get breakfast along my route. This seems like something the built-in navigation should help with; charge + activity seems like a common kind of goal. Unfortunately, it would only let me search for one thing at a time. Google Maps on my phone was better, letting me search for 'superchargers' along my route, but then I needed to manually scroll around each looking for potential breakfast spots. I ended up finding a supercharger location next to a Denny's, after about 5min. This is a very good fit for software.

Finding charging locations was relatively easy, which is part of what made the optimization problem above tricky. Driving up and down CA is there are plenty of superchargers.

As we drove on it started to rain, and the automatic windshield wipers were convenient. Unfortunately, I occasionally wanted to manually trigger them, maybe because spray on the windshield didn't reliably affect the sensor, and the only way I could see to do that was to poke at the tablet in a way that didn't seem very safe to do while driving.

I had a much harder time keeping the car at the speed I intended than I'm used to. It might've been that the speedometer isn't in your main field of view (upper left corner of the tablet) or that there were no engine noises that varied with speed. When I wasn't driving, I looked up how to use the cruise control (the "Traffic-Aware Cruise Control", without Autosteer, FSD, etc), which basically solves this problem. This is another case where I was frustrated with the poor discoverability caused by their minimalist aesthetic decisions.

The adaptive cruise control mostly worked well, keeping me at a constant speed on an open road, and smoothly keeping pace with the car in front of me when there was one. When I pulled into an adjacent lane after following a slow car it would carefully bring us back up to speed, unlike some other cars where you get "I'm 20 mph below setpoint, better floor it!"

The major downside of the cruise control was phantom braking. In about 450mi of driving up and down CA 101 I has three false positives, where we suddenly decelerated:

I haven't experienced this in other cars with adaptive cruise control. I don't want to be too hard on Tesla here, false positives are a lot better than false negatives, but that only goes so far. If we very roughly figure that driving at full speed into another car happens about once in 75M miles [1] then we have roughly ~500k incidences of phantom breaking per accident that could have been avoided this way. If even 2 in 1M of those phantom braking episodes result in a rear-ending death, which seems plausible then the system would be safer turned off. And that's assuming it has no false-negatives, which it does.

Overall it was ok and I'm glad I tried one, but in the near future I expect I'd get a regular car instead. I saved about $65 in gas, but couldn't always use the charging time well and didn't like the phantom braking. If chargers keep getting faster or the phantom braking gets fixed, though, I could see renting a similar car again.


[1] I'm using 13 deaths per billion miles travelled as a proxy here. Not all deaths are from this kind of head-on collision, not all cars are single-passenger, and not all head-on collisions kill someone, but it seems good enough for an order-of-magnitude estimate.

15 comments

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comment by mako yass (MakoYass) · 2023-01-17T03:16:48.632Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

This was somewhat surprising—I had only paid for a small sedan ("B") and the Teslas are fancy

The reason for this, I've heard, is that the maintenence costs of electric cars ends up being so much lower. Consumers don't tend to notice that or take that into account when making their purchasing decisions (yet), but a commercial fleet manager like Hertz will.

But then, why teslas, rather than a cheaper electric car? I'm not sure, it's possible their batteries are expected to have a longer lifespan or something, or that some deal was made (tesla's margins have historically been quite large, though they were shrunk significantly this week).

comment by Nanda Ale · 2023-01-18T04:17:18.236Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

On Tesla braking:

@caseyliss @oliverames There is a downside: when environmental circumstances prohibit max regen, the car lessens the regen rate which ultimately changes excepted deceleration. You let off the pedal and it slows down much less than you expect. It helps maximize efficiency, but some people can’t remap their brain for it. Tesla has begun “brake blending” to compensate when lesser regen is available for a consistent feel at the expense of efficiency.

@snazzyq @caseyliss @oliverames I think you need to remember that this only makes sense in the context of Teslas which don't do blended braking.

Most other EVs will still regenerate more when you use the brake pedal, no matter what the lift-off regen is set to. Teslas not doing that is, to me, bonkers.

Also, when conditions are appropriate to coast, that is more efficient because you avoid the losses from charging and discharging

@snazzyq @caseyliss @oliverames like, it truly boggles my mind that Tesla decided "no, the brake pedal only does the friction brakes, and you need to get used to what regen is like" and people actually defend this position.

Hybrids have had blended braking since always, allowing people to coast where they want, regen when they need to slow down, and thus maximize efficiency without even thinking about it

 

https://mas.to/@TechConnectify/109604856942762567

 

https://mas.to/@TechConnectify/109604866116049928

Replies from: MakoYass
comment by mako yass (MakoYass) · 2023-01-18T21:08:10.462Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Tesla has begun “brake blending” to compensate when lesser regen is available for a consistent feel at the expense of efficiency.

Uh so is the issue resolved then, or?..

Replies from: jkaufman
comment by jefftk (jkaufman) · 2023-01-18T21:24:24.287Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

I think this is blending on the accelerator pedal when the battery is full, while we want blending on the brake pedal.

comment by Bucky · 2023-01-17T15:01:13.946Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

FWIW this matches my own experience with one as a company car pretty exactly.

(On mine (UK, right hand drive) the wipers can be activated manually by pressing the button on the end of the left stalk. This also brings up an on-screen menu for selecting constant wiping)

comment by jp · 2023-01-17T12:37:08.817Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

When I had the chance to drive an electric car recently, I turned off "one pedal driving". I bet you could in a Tesla. Note for next time!

Replies from: jkaufman
comment by jefftk (jkaufman) · 2023-01-17T13:47:58.610Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

I looked in the settings and online at the time and couldn't find an option to configure this. Instead I found people saying it wasn't an option (ex: forum post)

Replies from: jp
comment by jp · 2023-01-17T14:30:54.719Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Huh. Wild.

comment by trevor (TrevorWiesinger) · 2023-01-17T05:36:46.537Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Do Teslas still have the thing where there's an entire easily-hacked operating system between the pedal and the brakes?

Replies from: Gunnar_Zarncke
comment by Gunnar_Zarncke · 2023-01-17T08:58:39.531Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

All modern cars have that.

Replies from: ChristianKl, lc
comment by ChristianKl · 2023-01-17T11:10:51.662Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Including Michael Hastings Mercedes C250.

comment by lc · 2023-01-27T02:48:02.551Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

The attack surface differs enormously from car to car.

Replies from: Gunnar_Zarncke
comment by Gunnar_Zarncke · 2023-01-27T09:49:14.189Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Sure. 

Do you know more about the attack surface of Tesla vs. other cars?

comment by Zian · 2023-01-17T11:35:36.818Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

How did you mitigate the risk of being arrested as a car thief due to false reports by Hertz?

Replies from: jkaufman
comment by jefftk (jkaufman) · 2023-01-17T13:45:25.617Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

This is rare enough not to be worth worrying about