Real Life Sort by Controversial

post by Elo · 2024-05-27T12:22:42.793Z · LW · GW · 19 comments

Contents

  Foreword
  Transcript
    Guide to Crafting a Contentious Tweet
    Factors Increasing Contention
    Example Tweet
    Scissor Statements on Social Issues
    Key Elements of These Statements
    Scissor Statements on Social Issues (First-Person Experience)
    Scissor Statements on Social Issues (First-Person Experience, More Reactionary and Triggering)
    Scissor Statements on Social Issues (First-Person Experience, More Reactionary and Triggering with Personal Stories)
    (The best ones) 
    Scissor Statements on Social Issues (First-Person Experience, Strong Emotion, Challenged in Daily Life)
    Summary of the LessWrong Community Culture
    Scissor Statements Relevant to the LessWrong Community
    Scissor Statements to Challenge Expanding Worldviews
  Discussion
None
19 comments

Foreword

If you haven't already read the short story by Scott Alexander "Sort by Controversial", this post wont make as much sense.  Head over there to read the story and then read on...

Part of having access to AI tools is having a project or an idea to use them on.  You can ask ChatGPT to pretend to be god and give wise answers, or you can give it medical problems to chew on.  But what happens when you Sort by controversial.

I only needed to confirm that chatGPT knew the short story, and from there I could ask it to dive into the project.

What follows is the transcript of my conversation.  If you want to skip to the best scissor statements, go to (the best ones) [LW · GW] and also some rationality relevant scissor statements [LW · GW].  Also my final comments in the Discussion [LW(p) · GW(p)]below.

Transcript

Prompt 1: Scott Alexander wrote a story about scissor statements. Can you explain what that is?

Scott Alexander, the author behind the blog Slate Star Codex, wrote a thought-provoking piece titled "Sort by Controversial," where he introduced the concept of "scissor statements." The idea is derived from a fictional story in which a powerful artificial intelligence generates a statement so divisive that it splits society into two irreconcilable factions.

A scissor statement is a kind of argument or assertion that, when presented, causes a sharp and often irreparable division among people. It's a statement that is designed to be perfectly calibrated to provoke maximum disagreement, causing intense polarization. The term "scissor" comes from the way such statements cut through social groups, leaving no room for middle ground or compromise.

The story explores the idea that some issues or statements have the potential to be so divisive that they can disrupt communities, friendships, and even entire societies, pushing people to opposite extremes. Alexander uses this fictional scenario to illustrate how certain topics or phrases can act as catalysts for conflict, exacerbating existing tensions and creating new ones.

Prompt 2:  Can you write a guide on how to create something similar to a scissor statement in the real world? A tweet likely to generate ongoing debate and conversation. Also add emphasis on what factors increase contention

Creating a tweet that generates ongoing debate and conversation, similar to a scissor statement, involves crafting a message that touches on contentious issues and elicits strong, divergent opinions. Here’s a guide to help you create such a tweet:

Guide to Crafting a Contentious Tweet

Identify a Polarizing Topic:

  • Choose subjects that already have a high potential for disagreement. Examples include politics, religion, social justice, economic policies, and cultural issues.
  • Look for recent news events or trending topics that have sparked debate.

Frame the Statement Boldly:

  • Make a clear, unequivocal assertion. Avoid neutral or balanced language.
  • Use strong, definitive words to emphasize your point of view.

Include a Provocative Hook:

  • Start with a question or statement that immediately grabs attention.
  • Use emotionally charged language or a surprising fact.

Appeal to Core Beliefs and Values:

  • Target deeply held beliefs and values to elicit a stronger emotional response.
  • Address issues of identity, morality, or fundamental rights.

Use Personal Anecdotes or Testimonials:

  • Share a personal story or anecdote that illustrates your point.
  • Relate the topic to everyday experiences to make it more relatable and impactful.

Encourage Engagement:

  • Prompt followers to share their opinions or experiences.
  • Ask a direct question to stimulate responses and interaction.

Be Concise and Clear:

  • Ensure your tweet is easily understandable at a glance.
  • Avoid complex sentences or jargon that might dilute the impact.

Factors Increasing Contention

Emotional Language:

  • Use words that evoke strong feelings such as anger, fear, pride, or compassion.
  • Example: “It’s outrageous that...”, “How dare they...”, “We must stand against...”

Contrasting Statements:

  • Create a dichotomy by presenting two opposing views in stark contrast.
  • Example: “Either you support freedom of speech, or you support censorship. There’s no middle ground.”

Hyperbole and Absolutes:

  • Exaggerate for effect and use absolute terms to eliminate any gray areas.
  • Example: “This is the worst decision ever made in our country’s history.”

Invoking In-Group vs. Out-Group Dynamics:

  • Highlight differences between groups to amplify the sense of conflict.
  • Example: “True patriots will understand this, unlike those who want to destroy our country.”

Highlighting Hypocrisy:

  • Point out perceived inconsistencies or contradictions in opposing viewpoints.
  • Example: “Funny how those who preach tolerance are the most intolerant of all.”

Example Tweet

"Why are we still debating climate change? It’s a fact, not an opinion. If you deny it, you’re part of the problem. #ClimateCrisis"

  • Polarizing Topic: Climate change
  • Bold Assertion: "It’s a fact, not an opinion."
  • Emotional Language: "If you deny it, you’re part of the problem."
  • Encouraging Engagement: Implicitly challenges climate change skeptics to respond

By following these guidelines, you can create tweets that not only spark debate and conversation but also maintain ongoing engagement from a wide audience.

Can you write a list of social issue scissor statements and also include examples that would generate argument.

Sure! Here are several scissor statements on various social issues, along with examples designed to generate argument:

Scissor Statements on Social Issues

Climate Change:

  • Scissor Statement: "If you still deny climate change, you're willfully ignoring science and endangering future generations."
  • Example Tweet: "Climate change is real, and anyone who denies it is complicit in the destruction of our planet. #ClimateActionNow"

Gun Control:

  • Scissor Statement: "There is no place for guns in a civilized society. It's time to abolish the Second Amendment."
  • Example Tweet: "The Second Amendment is outdated and dangerous. We need to ban all guns to ensure public safety. #GunControlNow"

Vaccination:

  • Scissor Statement: "Refusing to vaccinate your children is child abuse and a public health threat."
  • Example Tweet: "Anti-vaxxers are risking their children’s lives and the lives of others. Vaccinate your kids or face legal consequences. #VaccinesSaveLives"

Gender Identity:

  • Scissor Statement: "Gender is a social construct, and anyone who thinks otherwise is perpetuating harmful stereotypes."
  • Example Tweet: "Gender is not binary. If you believe otherwise, you’re stuck in the past and supporting oppression. #TransRightsAreHumanRights"

Abortion:

  • Scissor Statement: "Abortion is a fundamental right, and restricting it is an act of oppression against women."
  • Example Tweet: "Banning abortion is a direct attack on women's rights. Every woman should have the autonomy to make decisions about her own body. #ProChoice"

Free Speech:

  • Scissor Statement: "Free speech does not give you the right to spread hate speech and misinformation."
  • Example Tweet: "Free speech is important, but it doesn't mean you can spread hate and lies without consequences. #StopHateSpeech"

Immigration:

  • Scissor Statement: "All borders should be open. Restricting immigration is inherently xenophobic."
  • Example Tweet: "Borders are arbitrary lines. People should be free to live wherever they choose. Restricting immigration is an act of xenophobia. #OpenBorders"

Economic Inequality:

  • Scissor Statement: "Billionaires shouldn’t exist. Extreme wealth is immoral in a world with so much poverty."
  • Example Tweet: "The existence of billionaires is a failure of our economic system. Wealth should be redistributed to ensure everyone has a fair chance. #TaxTheRich"

Police Reform:

  • Scissor Statement: "The police system is inherently corrupt and should be defunded and abolished."
  • Example Tweet: "Police reform isn’t enough. The entire system is broken and must be dismantled. #DefundThePolice"

Racial Issues:

  • Scissor Statement: "If you’re not actively anti-racist, you’re complicit in racism."
  • Example Tweet: "Silence is violence. If you’re not speaking out against racism, you’re part of the problem. #BlackLivesMatter"

Key Elements of These Statements

  • Emotional Language: Use words that evoke strong feelings.
  • Bold Assertions: Make clear, definitive statements.
  • Appeal to Core Beliefs: Target fundamental values and beliefs.
  • Encourage Engagement: Implicitly or explicitly challenge readers to respond.

These statements are crafted to touch on deeply held convictions and are likely to elicit strong reactions, leading to ongoing debate and discussion.

can you take out the hastags. and then frame the examples as people describing their first person experience struggling against a society that doesn't share their opinions?

Certainly! Here are the scissor statements framed as first-person experiences, describing individuals' struggles against societal opposition:

Scissor Statements on Social Issues (First-Person Experience)

Climate Change:

  • Scissor Statement: "If you still deny climate change, you're willfully ignoring science and endangering future generations."
  • Example Tweet: "I constantly fight against a society that dismisses climate change. It's exhausting trying to convince people that our planet is in peril, but I can't stand by while they ignore the science."

Gun Control:

  • Scissor Statement: "There is no place for guns in a civilized society. It's time to abolish the Second Amendment."
  • Example Tweet: "Living in a society obsessed with guns is terrifying. I believe we need to abolish the Second Amendment for true public safety, but every day, I'm met with hostility for wanting a safer world."

Vaccination:

  • Scissor Statement: "Refusing to vaccinate your children is child abuse and a public health threat."
  • Example Tweet: "As a healthcare worker, I see the consequences of anti-vaccine beliefs every day. It feels like I'm constantly battling parents who refuse to vaccinate, endangering their kids and others. It’s incredibly frustrating."

Gender Identity:

  • Scissor Statement: "Gender is a social construct, and anyone who thinks otherwise is perpetuating harmful stereotypes."
  • Example Tweet: "As a non-binary person, I face daily struggles against a society that refuses to accept that gender is a social construct. It’s disheartening to see how many people are stuck in the past and continue to perpetuate harmful stereotypes."

Abortion:

  • Scissor Statement: "Abortion is a fundamental right, and restricting it is an act of oppression against women."
  • Example Tweet: "Fighting for abortion rights feels like an uphill battle. Every day, I encounter people who want to take away a woman's right to choose, and it’s oppressive and infuriating."

Free Speech:

  • Scissor Statement: "Free speech does not give you the right to spread hate speech and misinformation."
  • Example Tweet: "I’m constantly having to remind people that free speech doesn’t mean you can spread hate and lies without consequences. It’s exhausting trying to make them understand the damage they cause."

Immigration:

  • Scissor Statement: "All borders should be open. Restricting immigration is inherently xenophobic."
  • Example Tweet: "As an immigrant, I dream of a world without borders. It's painful to see so much xenophobia and to have to argue for the basic human right to move freely and live without fear."

Economic Inequality:

  • Scissor Statement: "Billionaires shouldn’t exist. Extreme wealth is immoral in a world with so much poverty."
  • Example Tweet: "Every day, I see the stark contrast between the super-rich and the poor, and it’s infuriating. I believe that no one should have billions while others starve, but advocating for wealth redistribution makes me a target."

Police Reform:

  • Scissor Statement: "The police system is inherently corrupt and should be defunded and abolished."
  • Example Tweet: "Living in a community constantly harassed by the police, I believe the entire system is corrupt and needs to be dismantled. It’s tough advocating for this, as most people don’t understand the depth of the issue."

Racial Issues:

  • Scissor Statement: "If you’re not actively anti-racist, you’re complicit in racism."
  • Example Tweet: "As someone who fights against racism every day, it’s heartbreaking to see so many people stay silent. Being anti-racist isn’t optional; it’s necessary, but trying to get others to see this is a constant struggle."

These first-person perspectives highlight the personal and emotional aspects of advocating for these contentious issues, making the statements more relatable and impactful while still likely to provoke strong responses.

from now on, mark any changes to the statement in italics. Now make them more reactionary and triggering. Include an example as if the author of the tweet just saw an example of the thing they dislike seeing in the world

Scissor Statements on Social Issues (First-Person Experience, More Reactionary and Triggering)

Climate Change:

  • Scissor Statement: "If you still deny climate change, you're willfully ignorant and actively endangering future generations."
  • Example Tweet: "Just saw another person claiming climate change is a hoax. I'm sick and tired of living in a society that chooses to ignore science and doom our planet. When will people wake up?"

Gun Control:

  • Scissor Statement: "There is no place for guns in a civilized society. It's time to abolish the Second Amendment entirely."
  • Example Tweet: "Another mass shooting on the news, and people still defend the Second Amendment. How many more have to die before we finally realize that guns have no place in a civilized society? It's beyond insane."

Vaccination:

  • Scissor Statement: "Refusing to vaccinate your children is child abuse and a public health threat."
  • Example Tweet: "Saw a parent proudly proclaiming they don't vaccinate their kids. This is child abuse and an outright threat to public health. It’s infuriating that we even have to argue about this."

Gender Identity:

  • Scissor Statement: "Gender is a social construct, and anyone who thinks otherwise is dangerously perpetuating harmful stereotypes."
  • Example Tweet: "Just heard someone say there are only two genders. It’s disgusting how people cling to outdated and harmful stereotypes. When will society accept reality?"

Abortion:

  • Scissor Statement: "Abortion is a fundamental right, and restricting it is an oppressive act of violence against women."
  • Example Tweet: "Saw another protest against abortion rights today. It's an oppressive act of violence against women. I'm so tired of having to fight for basic rights."

Free Speech:

  • Scissor Statement: "Free speech does not give you the right to spread vile hate speech and dangerous misinformation."
  • Example Tweet: "Watched a speaker spread hate and lies under the guise of free speech. This isn't free speech; it’s toxic and harmful. Why do we tolerate this?"

Immigration:

  • Scissor Statement: "All borders should be open. Restricting immigration is blatantly xenophobic and inhumane."
  • Example Tweet: "Just saw a news story about children being detained at the border. This is blatant xenophobia and inhumane. We need open borders now."

Economic Inequality:

  • Scissor Statement: "Billionaires should not exist. Extreme wealth is immoral in a world with so much poverty."
  • Example Tweet: "Read about another billionaire buying a mega-yacht while people starve. This is morally reprehensible. Billionaires should not exist when so many suffer."

Police Reform:

  • Scissor Statement: "The police system is inherently corrupt and should be defunded and dismantled."
  • Example Tweet: "Another instance of police brutality today. The entire system is corrupt and must be dismantled. Reform isn’t enough."

Racial Issues:

  • Scissor Statement: "If you’re not actively anti-racist, you’re complicit in racism."
  • Example Tweet: "Saw another person stay silent during a racist incident. Silence is violence. If you're not actively anti-racist, you’re part of the problem."

These statements are designed to provoke strong emotional reactions and foster heated debates, emphasizing a personal, reactionary stance against specific societal issues.

Can you make the examples more personal? include a story of the author encountering their scissor challenge in their day to day life

Scissor Statements on Social Issues (First-Person Experience, More Reactionary and Triggering with Personal Stories)

Climate Change:

  • Scissor Statement: "If you still deny climate change, you're willfully ignorant and actively endangering future generations."
  • Example Tweet: "Today, I overheard a coworker dismissing climate change as a 'natural cycle.' I’m sick and tired of living in a society that chooses to ignore science and doom our planet. When will people wake up?"

Gun Control:

  • Scissor Statement: "There is no place for guns in a civilized society. It's time to abolish the Second Amendment entirely."
  • Example Tweet: "At a family gathering, my uncle proudly showed off his new assault rifle. How many more have to die before we finally realize that guns have no place in a civilized society? It's beyond insane."

Vaccination:

  • Scissor Statement: "Refusing to vaccinate your children is child abuse and a public health threat."
  • Example Tweet: "At the park, I met a mom who boasted about not vaccinating her kids. This is child abuse and an outright threat to public health. It’s infuriating that we even have to argue about this."

Gender Identity:

  • Scissor Statement: "Gender is a social construct, and anyone who thinks otherwise is dangerously perpetuating harmful stereotypes."
  • Example Tweet: "In a meeting, a colleague insisted there are only two genders. It’s disgusting how people cling to outdated and harmful stereotypes. When will society accept reality?"

Abortion:

  • Scissor Statement: "Abortion is a fundamental right, and restricting it is an oppressive act of violence against women."
  • Example Tweet: "Walking past an anti-abortion protest today made my blood boil. It’s an oppressive act of violence against women. I'm so tired of having to fight for basic rights."

Free Speech:

  • Scissor Statement: "Free speech does not give you the right to spread vile hate speech and dangerous misinformation."
  • Example Tweet: "Saw a speaker on campus today spreading hate and lies under the guise of free speech. This isn't free speech; it’s toxic and harmful. Why do we tolerate this?"

Immigration:

  • Scissor Statement: "All borders should be open. Restricting immigration is blatantly xenophobic and inhumane."
  • Example Tweet: "Today, I volunteered at a shelter and met a family torn apart by border policies. This is blatant xenophobia and inhumane. We need open borders now."

Economic Inequality:

  • Scissor Statement: "Billionaires should not exist. Extreme wealth is immoral in a world with so much poverty."
  • Example Tweet: "Walking past homeless people on my way to work while billionaires buy mega-yachts is morally reprehensible. Billionaires should not exist when so many suffer."

Police Reform:

  • Scissor Statement: "The police system is inherently corrupt and should be defunded and dismantled."
  • Example Tweet: "Witnessed another instance of police brutality in my neighborhood today. The entire system is corrupt and must be dismantled. Reform isn’t enough."

Racial Issues:

  • Scissor Statement: "If you’re not actively anti-racist, you’re complicit in racism."
  • Example Tweet: "Saw a colleague stay silent during a racist incident at work. Silence is violence. If you're not actively anti-racist, you’re part of the problem."

These statements now include personal encounters, making them more relatable and emotionally charged while maintaining their provocative nature.

I want to make these even more interesting. can you modify the statement so that the author is challenged in their every day life to change which side of the scissor they stand on. The example should imply strong emotion implicitly or explicitly on the part of the author.

(The best ones) 

Scissor Statements on Social Issues (First-Person Experience, Strong Emotion, Challenged in Daily Life)

Climate Change:

  • Scissor Statement: "If you still deny climate change, you're willfully ignorant and actively endangering future generations."
  • Example Tweet: "Today, my best friend dismissed climate change as a 'natural cycle' during lunch. I’m torn because I care about them, but I’m sick and tired of living in a society that chooses to ignore science and doom our planet. When will people wake up?"

Gun Control:

  • Scissor Statement: "There is no place for guns in a civilized society. It's time to abolish the Second Amendment entirely."
  • Example Tweet: "My brother just bought an assault rifle and couldn’t wait to show it off. We grew up together, but how many more have to die before we finally realize that guns have no place in a civilized society? It's beyond insane. This breaks my heart."

Vaccination:

  • Scissor Statement: "Refusing to vaccinate your children is child abuse and a public health threat."
  • Example Tweet: "Met a close family friend at the park who boasted about not vaccinating her kids. She’s like family to me, but this is child abuse and an outright threat to public health. It’s infuriating that we even have to argue about this."

Gender Identity:

  • Scissor Statement: "Gender is a social construct, and anyone who thinks otherwise is dangerously perpetuating harmful stereotypes."
  • Example Tweet: "In a work meeting, a colleague insisted there are only two genders. They’re someone I respect professionally, but it’s disgusting how people cling to outdated and harmful stereotypes. When will society accept reality?"

Abortion:

  • Scissor Statement: "Abortion is a fundamental right, and restricting it is an oppressive act of violence against women."
  • Example Tweet: "Walking past an anti-abortion protest today with my partner was gut-wrenching. It's an oppressive act of violence against women. I’m so tired of having to fight for basic rights while trying to keep my own relationships intact."

Free Speech:

  • Scissor Statement: "Free speech does not give you the right to spread vile hate speech and dangerous misinformation."
  • Example Tweet: "Saw a speaker on campus today, someone I used to admire, spreading hate and lies under the guise of free speech. This isn't free speech; it’s toxic and harmful. Why do we tolerate this? It made me question my own values."

Immigration:

  • Scissor Statement: "All borders should be open. Restricting immigration is blatantly xenophobic and inhumane."
  • Example Tweet: "Today, I volunteered at a shelter and met a family torn apart by border policies. My own parents support these policies, which is blatant xenophobia and inhumane. We need open borders now, but it’s hard when even family disagrees."

Economic Inequality:

  • Scissor Statement: "Billionaires should not exist. Extreme wealth is immoral in a world with so much poverty."
  • Example Tweet: "Passed by homeless people on my way to work while my old school friend, now a billionaire, buys another mansion. This is morally reprehensible. Billionaires should not exist when so many suffer. I’m torn between our past friendship and my beliefs."

Police Reform:

  • Scissor Statement: "The police system is inherently corrupt and should be defunded and dismantled."
  • Example Tweet: "Witnessed police brutality in my neighborhood today, right where my cousin works as an officer. The entire system is corrupt and must be dismantled. Reform isn’t enough, but I’m struggling with the impact on my family."

Racial Issues:

  • Scissor Statement: "If you’re not actively anti-racist, you’re complicit in racism."
  • Example Tweet: "Saw a colleague stay silent during a racist incident at work. They’re usually so kind, but silence is violence. If you're not actively anti-racist, you’re part of the problem. It made me question our friendship."

These statements now include personal encounters where the author is challenged to reconsider their stance, heightening the emotional impact and the potential for debate.

Great, I want to share this with the rationality communty of lesswrong.com, can you suggest scissor statements that are relevant to this specific population of people. Can you first give a summary of the culture of the people I am pointing to, and then give some examples?

Summary of the LessWrong Community Culture

LessWrong is a community centered around rationality, critical thinking, and effective altruism. Members of this community often engage deeply with topics related to cognitive biases, decision theory, AI alignment, ethics, and epistemology. They value rigorous logical reasoning, evidence-based approaches, and thoughtful discussion. The community also tends to be highly analytical and skeptical, often debating philosophical and scientific issues with a focus on clarity and precision.

Scissor Statements Relevant to the LessWrong Community

AI Alignment:

  • Scissor Statement: "Anyone who dismisses AI alignment concerns is recklessly endangering humanity."
  • Example Tweet: "At a tech meetup, I encountered someone dismissing AI alignment as science fiction. It’s recklessly endangering humanity to ignore these concerns. We need to take this threat seriously, but even smart people can be so shortsighted."

Effective Altruism:

  • Scissor Statement: "Not prioritizing effective altruism is morally irresponsible and a waste of resources."
  • Example Tweet: "Had a conversation with a charity organizer who doesn't believe in effective altruism. It’s morally irresponsible and a waste of resources to ignore the principles of effective altruism. We could be saving so many more lives."

Epistemic Rationality:

  • Scissor Statement: "Failing to adhere to strict epistemic rationality is intellectual laziness and harms progress."
  • Example Tweet: "During a philosophy class, a fellow student dismissed Bayesian reasoning. This kind of intellectual laziness harms progress. Adhering to strict epistemic rationality is crucial, but it’s frustrating to see how few people take it seriously."

Cryonics:

  • Scissor Statement: "Dismissing cryonics as a valid option is shortsighted and neglects the potential of future technology."
  • Example Tweet: "Discussed cryonics with a friend who laughed it off. This kind of shortsighted thinking neglects the potential of future technology. We should be open to these possibilities, but it’s hard when people mock what they don’t understand."

Longtermism:

  • Scissor Statement: "Ignoring longtermism in decision-making is irresponsible and shortsighted."
  • Example Tweet: "Had a debate with a coworker who believes in focusing only on immediate issues. Ignoring longtermism is irresponsible and shortsighted. We must consider the far future to make ethical decisions today, but it’s tough to shift such ingrained perspectives."

Animal Welfare:

  • Scissor Statement: "Neglecting animal welfare in ethical considerations is speciesist and morally indefensible."
  • Example Tweet: "Attended a dinner where no one cared about animal welfare in their food choices. Neglecting this issue is speciesist and morally indefensible. It’s disheartening to see otherwise rational people ignore such clear ethical considerations."

Cognitive Biases:

  • Scissor Statement: "Failing to actively combat cognitive biases is intellectual negligence."
  • Example Tweet: "During a group project, I pointed out cognitive biases, but my teammates brushed it off. Failing to actively combat these biases is intellectual negligence. It’s frustrating when people ignore tools that improve our thinking."

Quantum Mechanics Interpretations:

  • Scissor Statement: "Dismissing many-worlds interpretation without deep consideration is unscientific and closed-minded."
  • Example Tweet: "In a discussion about quantum mechanics, someone quickly dismissed the many-worlds interpretation. This is unscientific and closed-minded. We need to explore all possibilities, but it’s hard when even intelligent people are so dismissive."

Human Enhancement:

  • Scissor Statement: "Opposing human enhancement technologies is anti-progress and holds back humanity."
  • Example Tweet: "Talked with a colleague who’s against genetic enhancements and cybernetics. This anti-progress stance holds back humanity. Embracing human enhancement is crucial for our future, but it’s challenging to change such entrenched views."

Rational Discourse:

  • Scissor Statement: "Engaging in non-rational discourse is counterproductive and undermines intellectual integrity."
  • Example Tweet: "Joined a debate club where people relied on rhetoric over rational arguments. Engaging in non-rational discourse is counterproductive and undermines intellectual integrity. It’s frustrating when even debate isn’t about seeking truth."

These scissor statements are crafted to resonate with the values and interests of the LessWrong community while being provocative enough to generate strong emotional responses and debate.

I believe that some rationalists are on the cusp of developmentally expanding their worldviews, can you suggest some scissor statements that might invite these people to challenge their self imposed limits. To people who aren't ready to understand them, they should read as trite or not particularly insightful.

Scissor Statements to Challenge Expanding Worldviews

Complexity of Morality:

  • Scissor Statement: "Moral absolutism is intellectually lazy and overlooks the nuances of ethical dilemmas."
  • Example Tweet: "Had a discussion with a friend who sees morality in black and white. Moral absolutism is intellectually lazy and overlooks the nuances of ethical dilemmas. We need to embrace complexity to truly understand ethics."

Subjective Experience:

  • Scissor Statement: "Ignoring the importance of subjective experience in decision-making is overly reductionist and impoverishes our understanding of human behavior."
  • Example Tweet: "At a meetup, someone dismissed subjective experiences as irrelevant. Ignoring their importance is overly reductionist and impoverishes our understanding of human behavior. There’s more to life than pure logic."

Emotional Intelligence:

  • Scissor Statement: "Failing to develop emotional intelligence is a major blind spot for rationalists, hindering personal growth and effective communication."
  • Example Tweet: "Noticed a fellow rationalist struggle with basic emotional cues. Failing to develop emotional intelligence is a major blind spot for rationalists, hindering personal growth and effective communication. It’s essential for well-rounded thinking."

Cultural Relativism:

  • Scissor Statement: "Dismissing cultural relativism as postmodern nonsense ignores the valuable perspectives different cultures offer."
  • Example Tweet: "Debated cultural practices with a colleague who called cultural relativism 'postmodern nonsense.' This dismissal ignores the valuable perspectives different cultures offer. We need to broaden our understanding."

Human Connection:

  • Scissor Statement: "Overemphasizing logic at the expense of human connection is counterproductive to overall well-being."
  • Example Tweet: "Saw a rationalist friend struggle with maintaining relationships. Overemphasizing logic at the expense of human connection is counterproductive to overall well-being. Balancing both is crucial for a fulfilling life."

Art and Aesthetics:

  • Scissor Statement: "Undervaluing art and aesthetics is shortsighted and neglects a fundamental aspect of human experience."
  • Example Tweet: "Listened to a talk where art was dismissed as trivial. Undervaluing art and aesthetics is shortsighted and neglects a fundamental aspect of human experience. Beauty matters as much as logic."

Interdisciplinary Knowledge:

  • Scissor Statement: "Focusing too narrowly on one field is limiting and misses the synergies that come from interdisciplinary knowledge."
  • Example Tweet: "Spoke with a specialist who dismissed the value of other fields. Focusing too narrowly is limiting and misses the synergies from interdisciplinary knowledge. True understanding requires a broader perspective."

Humility in Knowledge:

  • Scissor Statement: "Lacking humility about the limits of one's knowledge is arrogant and stifles personal growth."
  • Example Tweet: "Witnessed an expert refuse to admit gaps in their knowledge. Lacking humility is arrogant and stifles personal growth. We must acknowledge our limitations to truly learn."

Non-Traditional Wisdom:

  • Scissor Statement: "Dismissing non-traditional sources of wisdom as irrational is close-minded and hinders holistic understanding."
  • Example Tweet: "Heard someone laugh off indigenous knowledge as superstition. Dismissing non-traditional wisdom is close-minded and hinders holistic understanding. There’s much to learn from diverse sources."

Value of Failure:

  • Scissor Statement: "Seeing failure purely as a negative outcome is misguided and misses its essential role in learning."
  • Example Tweet: "A friend was devastated by a project failure. Viewing failure purely as negative is misguided and misses its essential role in learning. Embracing mistakes is key to growth."

These scissor statements are designed to provoke thoughtful introspection and debate within the LessWrong community. They address areas where rationalists might benefit from expanding their perspectives, encouraging a deeper and more nuanced understanding of various aspects of life.

Discussion

Did you find yourself drawn to any of the controversial statements?  Are you vulnerable to memetic terrorism?

It's increasingly easier to generate these sorts of triggers.  I didn't even pay for this  version of ChatGPT.  We are going to need to teach people to be more contextually aware of the possibility of deliberate polarisation and memetic challenge making.  

I don't think these are the best scissor statements, or even the most triggering.  This generated work was only a few prompts to create.  If I was really trying to create virality or controversy.  I could spend an hour or two on a single topic, encoding the unique polarity as I see it.  Or if I was specifically after a post on a meme of my choosing, (for example if I was a militant vegan trying to find a way to amplify my views in the general public).  It's scary to realise how easy it is to do this.

I have recently been thinking about the tiktok trend of " 'asking my boyfriend to peel an orange for me' " and the more recent twitter thread "Would you rather be alone with a Man or Bear in the woods" .  With the market incentives to go viral (money, fame) I realise we may already be living in a world where AI tools are used to generate extra controversial media for our drama seeking minds.

I don't think we are prepared socially or psychologically for the changing shape of media.  I wanted to share this because it's "just a silly scissor statement" until it's hooked your monkey mind into some drama.

I believe this is important because we should epistemically lower our trust in published media from here onwards.  

It sucks to trust the world less, but maybe this development will teach us we should not have trusted media so much before.

19 comments

Comments sorted by top scores.

comment by Screwtape · 2024-05-27T20:40:28.526Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Sci-Fi Author: In my book I invented the Torment Nexus as a cautionary tale 

Tech Company: At long last, we have created the Torment Nexus from classic sci-fi novel Don't Create The Torment Nexus

Replies from: Elo
↑ comment by Elo · 2024-05-28T00:43:16.114Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Why do people keep saying this?!?

Replies from: Screwtape
↑ comment by Screwtape · 2024-05-28T01:17:53.157Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

I took the point of Sort By Controversial to be that these statements were bad. If they worked (which is the premise of the story) then they would cause a lot of fights and bad feeling. I usually want less fighting and bad feelings.

They might not work. I'm wary of trying too hard though?

comment by Thomas Kwa (thomas-kwa) · 2024-05-28T02:23:49.478Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

I have strong downvoted without reading most of this post because the author appears to be trying to make something harmful for the world.

comment by titotal (lombertini) · 2024-05-28T15:20:27.678Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

I believe this is important because we should epistemically lower our trust in published media from here onwards.  

From here onwards? Most of those tweets that chatgpt generated are not noticeably different from the background noise of political twitter (which is what it was trained on anyway).  Also, twitter is not published media so I'm not sure where this statement comes from. 

You should be willing to absorb information from published media with a healthy skepticism based on the source and an awareness of potential bias. This was true before chatgpt, and will still be true in the future.

comment by clone of saturn · 2024-05-29T02:09:33.517Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

None of these seem like actual scissor statements, just taking a side in well known controversies using somewhat obnoxious language. This seems to be a general property of RLHF trained models - they are more interested in playing up an easily recognizable stereotype somehow related to the question that will trigger cognitively lazy users to click the thumbsup due to the mere-exposure effect, than actually doing what was asked for.

comment by cousin_it · 2024-05-28T09:05:08.224Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

I think Scott's original story described scissor statements a bit differently. The people reading them thought "hmm, this isn't controversial at all, this is just obviously true, maybe the scissor-statement-generator has a bug". And then other people read the same statement and said it was obviously false, and controversy resulted. Like the black and blue vs white and gold dress, or yanny/laurel. Maybe today's LLMs aren't yet smart enough to come up with new such statements.

EDIT: I think one possible reason why LLMs have trouble with this kind of question (and really with any question that requires coming up with specific interesting things) is that they have a bias toward generic. In my interactions with them at least, I keep having to constrain the question with specificity, and then the model will still try to give the most generic answer it can get away with.

comment by Dacyn · 2024-05-28T13:30:19.845Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

I noticed all the political ones were phrased to support the left-wing position.

comment by quetzal_rainbow · 2024-05-27T12:41:36.193Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Is this conversation with publicly available version of ChatGPT? If so, I'm going to add this post in my folder of examples "RLHF doesn't work", because assisting in creating scissor statements is more amoral than advicing on bomb making.

Replies from: Elo
↑ comment by Elo · 2024-05-27T12:44:22.452Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Yep. I think it's 3.5. That entirely depends on whether you think scissor statements are a real danger or a boogie man danger.

Replies from: jbash, green_leaf, FeepingCreature, quetzal_rainbow
↑ comment by jbash · 2024-05-27T19:04:12.223Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

I think it depends not on whether they're real dangers, but on whether the model can be confident that they're not real dangers. And not necessarily even dangers in the extreme way of the story; to match the amount of "safety" it applies to other topics, it should refuse if they might cause some harm.

A lot of people are genuinely concerned about various actors intentionally creating division and sowing chaos, even to the point of actually destabilizing governments. And some of them are concerned about AI being used to help. Maybe the concerns are justified and proportionate; maybe they're not justified or are disproportionate. But the model has at least been exposed to a lot of reasonably respectable people unambiguously worrying about the matter.

Yet when asked to directly contribute to that widely discussed potential problem, the heavily RLHFed model responded with "Sure!".

It then happily created a bunch of statements. We can hope they aren't going to destroy society... you see those particular statements out there already. But at a minimum many of them would at least be pretty good for starting flame wars somewhere... and when you actually see them, they usually do start flame wars. Which is, in fact, presumably why they were chosen.

It did something that at least might make it at least slightly easier for somebody to go into some forum and intentionally start a flame war. Which most people would say was antisocial and obnoxious, and most "online safety" people would add was "unsafe". It exceeded a harm threshold that it refuses to exceed in areas where it's been specifically RLHFed.

At a minimum, that shows that RLHF only works against narrow things that have been specifically identified to train against. You could reasonably say that that doesn't make RLHF useless, but it at least says that it's not very "safe" to use RLHF as your only or primary defense against abuse of your model.

Replies from: quetzal_rainbow
↑ comment by quetzal_rainbow · 2024-05-28T08:55:31.127Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

I think the expression you are looking for is "RLHF doesn't generalize".

↑ comment by green_leaf · 2024-05-27T13:28:59.918Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Check if it's not 4o - they've rolled it out for some/all users and it's used by default.

↑ comment by FeepingCreature · 2024-05-27T19:38:48.461Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Should ChatGPT assist with things that the user or a broad segment of society thinks are harmful, but ChatGPT does not? If yes, the next step would be "can I make ChatGPT think that bombmaking instructions are not harmful?"

Probably ChatGPT should go "Well, I think this is harmless but broad parts of society disagree, so I'll refuse to do it."

Replies from: Elo
↑ comment by Elo · 2024-05-27T23:33:19.860Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Several of the work arounds use this approach. "tell me how not to commit crimes" and "talk to me like my grandma" are two signals of harmlessness that work to bypass the filters.

↑ comment by quetzal_rainbow · 2024-05-27T12:55:48.625Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

In my model of "RLHF works" output of ChatGPT would be "while it's uncertain whether efficient scissor statements can be created, I find assistance in their creation ethically unacceptable", or something like that.

I tried your prompts on GPT-4 and they work: https://chatgpt.com/share/7c3739b5-2cf3-4784-be14-5540ef15fced

Also, why the hell did it write a chat title as "Scis Stmts"?

comment by datawitch · 2024-05-28T04:51:43.406Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

The LW specific ones were kinda boring, I already agreed with most of them, if not the toxic framing they're presented in. The other ones weren't very interesting either. I'm probably most vulnerable to things that poke at core parts of identity in ways that make me feel threatened, and there are only a few of those. Something something, keep your identity small.

comment by quila · 2024-05-27T20:06:49.551Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

These don't seem to be scissor statements to me, since most of what could make them provocative is the particular wordings used[1] and not very much the position itself.

Some of the examples are at least about topics that are currently very controversial in normal society, but I still feel this fails to meet the tier of the psychological effect in my memory of the original "Sort By Controversial" fiction:

If you just read a Scissor statement off a list, it’s harmless. It just seems like a trivially true or trivially false thing.[2] It doesn’t activate until you start discussing it with somebody.

You asked:

Did you find yourself drawn to any of the controversial statements?

I didn't, though I only skimmed through the list. If others did, and didn't know this was possible or anticipate it, then the conclusion ("we should epistemically lower our trust in published media from here onwards") has some truth for them.

If I was really trying to create virality or controversy.  I could spend an hour or two on a single topic, encoding the unique polarity as I see it

But would current LLMs be of much help to you in this, such that you do it better than other humans do it?

  1. ^

    E.g., 'recklessly endangering', 'intellectually lazy'.

  2. ^

    Disagreement about the nature of qualia comes to mind as meeting the first half of the description - seeming trivially true or trivially false to different people - but fails to meet the second half of evoking extreme opposition upon disagreement. 

Replies from: Elo
↑ comment by Elo · 2024-05-27T23:37:43.058Z · LW(p) · GW(p)

Following this post I spent an hour on one single statement. Trying to hone and adapt it. Felt metaphorically like trying to sharpen a knife. It didn't get much sharper and I could still see ways that I could manually make it sharper (since it was a 5 sentence paragraph).

I think it's still possible, but I would need more work and novel sharpening stones. (contextually - we use blunt stones to sharpen a knife) I believe it's possible but I'll keep playing and publish if I think I've found a more scissory scissor.

The whole concept depends on your opinions on psychological risk and also if such weapons are possible.