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Ah, yep, this makes sense to me.

Yeah, this is a good point, which doesn't seem addressed by any idea so far.

Chess is like a bounded, mathematically described universe where all the instrumental convergence stays contained, and only accomplishes a very limited instrumentality in our universe (IE chess programs gain a limited sort of power here by being good playmates).

LLMs touch on the real world far more than that, such that MCTS-like skill at navigating "the LLM world" in contrast to chess sounds to me like it may create a concerning level of real-world-relevant instrumental convergence.

OP did the work to collect these emails and put them into a post. When people do work for you, you shouldn't punish them by giving them even more work.

Oh wow, this is almost exactly how I model my internal mind. I didn't realize it was a real thing other people has arrived at. Is there a name for this?

Still, IMO, exploiting the frozen planner through adversarial inputs in a single step seems pretty unlikely to be a fruitful strategy for the optimized planner. If the optimized planner is simply trying to accurately convey information to the frozen planner, probably >99% of that information is best to convey through human-understandable text.

Well, I'm not sure. As you mention, it depends on the step size. It also depends on how vulnerable to adversarial inputs LLMs are and how easy they are to find. I haven't looked into the research on this, but it sounds empirically checkable. If there are lots of adversarial inputs which have a wide array of impacts on LLM behavior, then it would seem very plausible that the optimized planner could find useful ones without being specifically steered in that direction.

This is especially likely to hold under the following conditions:

We can also combine this with other proposals, such as paraphrasing.

This cognitive phenomenon is usually lumped in with “confirmation bias.” However, it seems to me that the phenomenon of trying to test positive rather than negative examples, ought to be distinguished from the phenomenon of trying to preserve the belief you started with. “Positive bias” is sometimes used as a synonym for “confirmation bias,” and fits this particular flaw much better.

Subtle distinction I almost missed here. Worth expanding.

Yeah, you're right, I no longer think it's an interesting proposal.

For next time: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/LfrNFfJFcqnG9WuFf/activated-charcoal-for-hangover-prevention-way-more-than-you [LW · GW] ;)

I was really sleep deprived and slightly intoxicated yesterday and wrote this. It was amusing to me, at least, in the state I was in.