Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, February 2015, chapters 105-107

Quirrell will be killed by Harry at the end -- but this is all a part of the plan.

Suppose that Quirrell is not the original Riddle, but is just another Riddle's copy. If Quirrell and Harry are both copies of the original Riddle, the original Riddle had no reason to prefer Quirrell's life to Harry's life.

The story about a good hero saving the world by defeating a horrible villain: he did not have to fake it. He could make it real, by letting two of his own copies fight against each other. Realistic hero Harry will be better than a fake hero; he will be more authentic; there will be no risk of discovering his secret in the future.

Just like Harry had a magically induced blind spot in his mind, also Quirrell can be manipulated. (Memory changes, imperius, unbreakable oath... there are many options.) This is why Quirrell does not kill Harry, why he teaches him things, any why he is making him angry at the end. This all is Quirrell's purpose; he is just a tool to prepare Harry for the role of king of the world. Quirrell is not optimizing for Quirrell; he is optimizing for Riddle.

So, this is what I imagine: First Riddle created his copy, Quirrell. Maybe with a specific purpose, maybe just as a backup copy. But later he was not satisfied with the outcome, when he realized that his new memories will not be preserved. So he later created another copy, Harry, killing himself in the process. Before that, he somehow magically commanded Quirrell to train Harry for the role of the king.

Quirrell may not be aware of this, because he was magically brainwashed. This is the power he knows not, the power that will cost him his life at the end. He is actually magically forbidden from killing Harry.

Not sure if the original Riddle was a sociopath (that would explain why he doesn't mind his two copies fighting to death against each other), or whether Quirrell's personality is another effect of the magic, preparing him to be the perfect villain.

Anyway, when Harry outsmarts and kills Quirrell at the end... this is exactly what Riddle has planned from the beginning. This was his plan for becoming a hero. (Maybe there will be a moment when the victorious Harry/Riddle will regain all original Riddle's memories. Or maybe not, because that could make him behave less authentically afterwards. Or maybe yes, because discovering that your favorite teacher was actually Lord Voldemort and defeating him is the most appropriate moment for a minor personality change.)

EDIT: Oh, now it's obvious what is in the mirror, any why Harry has to be there. The mirror contains Riddle's memories that are to be implanted in Harry soon. By the way, Dumbledore already knows many of these things, and has his own plans.

...Huh. Unless I've been Obliviated, the summary for HPMoR on fanfiction.net used to show "Hermione G., Harry P." on its character list. Now it says "Hermione G., Tom R. Jr." instead.

EY really doesn't miss anything, does he?

Professor Quirrell then turned back to where the Potions Master lay sprawled, bent over and placed his wand on Professor Snape's forehead. "Alienis nervus mobile lignum."

The Defense Professor stepped back, and began to move his left fingers in the air as though manipulating a puppet on strings.

Professor Snape pushed himself up from the ground by smooth motions, and stood once more before the corridor door.

From Chapter 88: Time Pressure, Part 1, before anyone knows about the troll yet:

"You know," Harry said, as he turned his head away to stare at the ceiling illusion of a clear blue sky, "that still creeps me out sometimes."

"What does?" said Fred or George.

The powerful and enigmatic Defense Professor was 'resting' or whatever-the-heck-was-wrong-with-him, his hands making fumbling, hesitant grabs at a chicken-leg that seemed to be eluding him on the plate.

Are there any other times that Quirrell is described making similar gestures? (Note that another time he apparently controls someone else--the centaur in Chapter 101--he doesn't do this, but that may be due to the centaur actually being dead as some have speculated.) [Edit for Ch. 106: Confirmed; the centaur and Fluffy became Infieri.]

I just realized why some spells were causing Harry dread, apprehension, and anxiety in chapter 104. It's not because Professor Sprout is controlled by Professor Quirrell (which she is), since other spells of hers fail to trigger the effect and yet one of Tonk's spells does. It's because Quirell is using metamagic to influence the outcome of the battle! He empower's Sprout's brown bolt so that it tears through Professor Snape's shield, and he quickens her stunner so that Snape can't dodge. Then he empowers Tonk's spell to ensure that she will take out Sprout.

In retrospect, this makes perfect sense. There are too many people involved, and combat is inherently chaotic; there is simply no way Quirrell can predict exactly how the fight will go. But he can be there, using gentle nudges to actively steer it towards the small region in outcome-space that ranks high in his utility function, and hope that Harry Potter is too distracted by the battle to notice (which he was; his deduction that Quirrell is behind the plot never once mentions this fact). As a bonus, this explains how Sprout can defeat Snape, when normally we wouldn't expect her to stand a chance.

I cannot be truly killed by any power known to me.

Prophecy, much? The power he knows not? I mean, that's a gimme but...

I love how so many people are acting as though their pet hypotheses have already been confirmed (both here and on Reddit), despite the fact that the only evidence we've got at this point for most of those hypotheses is Quirrell's word. I don't know about anyone else, but this seems to me like a golden opportunity for EY to pull some sort of epic subversion of expectations and then lecture all of us about confirmation bias or overconfidence or something.

Harry made some serious mistakes in chapter 105.

First, the parseltongue honesty-binding could just be Quirrell's (selective!) wandless magic--I mean, he just forged a note "from yourself" (and why do you even MAKE a self-recognition ("I am a potato") policy if you just forget all about it once you're in a life-stakes intrigue) so you need a lot of extra suspicions going forward. But assuming it's real... there are crucial questions Harry can now profitably ask, with his help conditional on getting immediate Parseltongue answers, along the lines of:

"Why did you set up this elaborate ruse instead of just asking me? Most of what you're saying right now sounds like something I would've probably agreed to if you were open about it, but no, you had to pretend you were dying and kill my friend, so it sure seems like you're planning nefarious things I'd rather not aid even at the cost of my life and the hostages' lives... does my CURRENT utility function actually prefer your planned results to the death of me and the hostages?"

(This isn't the perfect phrasing; for one thing Quirrell doesn't necessarily know Harry's utility function to high accuracy, for another Harry might have disagreed to the "open" proposal at weaker dispreference than "this is worse than my death". But something similar...)

Iff Quirrell is at all "innocent" at this point, he'd want to answer these, and never mind the "my policy is never to reveal that much or people will know I'm guilty later when I actually need to keep mum" stuff; these stakes seem high enough to outweigh any future similar dealings. If he's guilty, then just die like you'd apparently prefer.

[the only edits I made here after getting responses were to correct my spelling of "Quirrell", and this note]

The spell in progress that may kill hundreds of students that the stone can fix — sounds like something transfigured into a gas.

The Defense Professor sent Harry the forged message after 11:04pm, but early enough that Harry was able to arrive at 6:49 with 1 hour left on his time turner. The time-turner has been confiscated, but this is still a big security hole.

Example possibility: Harry and Quirrel arrive at the mirror, and time-turned Harry is already there with Dumbledore, Moody, Madam Bones and a dementor, which had not been detected by present Harry because patronus 2.0 is out and shielding everyone from it. Quirrel can't apparate away in Hogwarts, patronus 2.0 stops any AK, and Dumbledore & friends can hold Voldemort off long enough for the dementor to start sucking face with Voldemort, who is particularly vulnerable. Harry retrieves his time-turner and goes back an hour to message Dumbledore via patronus and set this ambush up. Asking Harry to state whether he has betrayed him is of limited use here, since the betrayal can happen in the future but impact the present.

Why has The Defense Professor deliberately preserved an hour on Harry's time-turner? It must be significant to his plan.

Why are they having a normal conversation and occasionally switching to Parseltongue to confirm the more important bits? Why not conduct the entire conversation in Parseltongue? Seems like the best way to ensure full cooperation leading to superior outcomes for both parties. Harry has already sneaked one lie past Quirrell, and he has no idea how much of what Quirrell said is true outside of the parts he deliberately chose to speak in Parseltongue.

[EDIT: the Dark Lord of the Matrix have fixed this.]

There's a glitch in the Matrix:

A blank-eyed Professor Sprout had now risen from the ground, had picked up Harry's wand and was wrapping it in a shimmering cloth.

Then Harry does some bargaining, and then...

After that, Professor Sprout picked up Harry's wand, and wrapped it in shimmering cloth; then she placed it on the floor, and pointed her own wand at Harry.

Observations:

1. Quirrell does not say what the Stone really does. Harry does, in normal speech. (Presumably Parseltongue only prevents willful lies.)
2. "Anyone else in Hogwarts" is pretty weak, especially since Dumbledore is presumably absent, and most of the people are at the Quidditch match (where is Sprout leading the others?). Especially as Quirrell interprets Hogwarts as "castle" in Parseltongue, and "unlesss I musst" is a pretty wide exemption.

Speculation:

1. Harry will not be saved by the power of love. (80%?)
2. Everyone involved in the deal gets 'what they want'--that is, cooperation on the Prisoner's Dilemma with a rational agent who (somewhat) shares your source code is rational, especially when defect-defect is miserable (presumably, both of them dead). (60%?)
3. Hermione is revived (90%?) and is an Alicorn Princess (20%?).

Why does Quirrel need Harry's help to obtain the Stone? What can Harry do that can't be done by Quirrel, Sprout, Snape (who is now controlled by Quirrel), the other students present (who want to get the Stone but not to use it, bypassing the Mirror), Harry's Cloak and Time-Turner (now in Quirrel's possession), and every other resource Quirrel could have prepared (e.g. Bellatrix)?

Finally, why did Quirrel have to bargain for Harry's help, instead of having Sprout or Snape use Imperius on him?

I haven't seen any theory that explains this, but surely such a major plot point should have been hinted in advance.

ETA: Harry agrees with my interpretation that we're missing something:

Harry knew that this was too good an offer to make to someone at whom you were pointing a gun. Unless you desperately needed their help to get the Philosopher's Stone out of the magic mirror.

Quirrell's Parseltongue statements could use a close reading.

I cannot be truly killed by any power known to me.

This could just mean that the Pioneer horcrux prevents him from being "truly killed".

And your girl-child friend sshall be revived by me, to true life and health

This seems quite explicit. Quirrell thinks that he can bring Hermione back to life.

Harry: You already have an idea for what you want from me. What is it?

Quirrell: Your help in obtaining the Philosopher's Stone.

(Not in Parseltongue.) Quirrell later asks Harry in Parseltongue to promise to help get the Stone, but he never says in Parseltongue that help getting the Stone is what he actually wants from Harry.

I do not intend to raisse my hand or magic againsst you in future, sso long ass you do not raisse your hand or magic againsst me.

Does this rule out Quirrell transferring his soul into Harry's body (wiping out Harry's identity and reuniting with the Tom Riddle groundwork that he laid in Harry's mind)? Because without this line, that would be my leading hypothesis for what Quirrell actually wants Harry for.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there seem to be two separate challenges on the Potions room parchment: a simple one consistent with canon and the skills and abilities of the target audience, and a complex one requiring an hour or so of careful and precise work. Looks like Harry and Quirrelmort focus exclusively on the long formula, ignoring the puzzle.

On rereading the relevant part of Ch. 107, it appears that Harry has an idea he doesn't want to share shortly after the broomstick conversation. On a close reading, it appears that he manages to avoid the topic, first evading a request to answer a question in parseltongue by talking about Snape, then veering further off topic with dementors.

So did Harry manage to pull a fast one? Are the Effulgence instructions forged? If so, by whom? Is the duration of one hour significant for time-turning? What did I miss?

Seems a bit strange that Quirrell didn't ask Harry to confirm in Parseltongue that Harry didn't have any contingency measures beyond those Quirrell already knows about (Lesath under the cloak). In the last chapter's discussion there were theories that Cedric Diggory might be around, time-turned with Harry. Even if not, why wouldn't Q make sure H doesn't have anyone else around to help or set up any other measures? Harry's promise "shall call for no help" isn't enough, if things are already set in motion for someone to help him.

-

There's a theory going around about how it was Amelia Bones who killed Narcissa Malfoy, based on nothing more than the stray thought 'Someone would burn for this.' What she said to Dumbledore during Hermione's trial ('You know the answer you must give, Albus. It will not change for agonizing over it.') seems to be taken as further evidence.

sigh

Of course it was Voldemort who did it!

I think what most of you fail to realize is, the whole thing happened after Voldemort heard the prophecy from Snape. Dumbledore predictably ignored the blackmail, and would not have killed anyone like that in retaliation (he would never crack, no matter what), but was willing to falsely claim he did it - one lie to an enemy is a small price to ensure no further loss of life to blackmail attempts. This resulting in Malfoy hating Dumbledore was also predictable. His hate kept the conflict alive after Voldemort's planned disappearance. This kept the lines of battle predictable, set the stage for Voldy's planned return.

I don't recall seeing anyone state this, and I really hope someone did - it would suck to be the only person who could realize something simple like this.

I think much of what we are being told about Parseltongue is a lie.

What we've been told: Parseltongue is the language of snakes. Because snakes cannot lie, Parselmouths also cannot lie in Parseltongue. Salazar Slytherin invoked the Parselmouth Curse on himself and his descendants to take advantage of this last fact by using it as a trust engine.

However, snakes have no spoken language. This is a fact established by Muggle science. So what is Parseltongue, really?

Parseltongue has four confirmed functions.

• 1) It can temporarily awaken snakes to the level of human intelligence.
• 2) It can compel obedience from any snake so awakened.
• 3) It enables two-way conversation with any snake. This seems to be a passive, area of effect feature, as Draco's Patronus speaks to Harry in Parseltongue without any way of knowing in advance that Harry will be able to comprehend it.
• 4) It prevents the speaker from knowingly making false statements.

Note that 1,2 and 3 are thematically unrelated to 4 (given that one does not expect a snake to lie, and in any case can order it to speak the truth).

Suppose the wizard S (possibly Salazar, possibly not) creates a spell or ritual that makes one a Parselmouth. Is it likely that they create a magical user interface for controlling snakes, and then decide that it also needs to prevent the user from lying?

On the other hand, suppose S has created a perfect trust engine. They decide, as we know, not to make this information public, either in order to preserve an advantage for themselves and the allies whom they will teach the spell/ritual, or because they fear the chaos doing so would bring (every deceitful person would wish it destroyed, while everyone who fears being deceived would want it made universal), or both.

They then conceal the trust engine inside another, separate ritual, which grants the power to understand and command snakes. Even if such a ritual becomes known, people generally aren't bothered about the ability to command snakes (which are a low-status animal anyway). Nor will they see anything strange about Parselmouths using their speciality language to communicate securely with each other. If S is Salazar Slytherin, he also has perfect cover for why he'd want to create such a ritual because the snake is already his personal symbol - or perhaps he adopts that symbol after creating the ritual, giving himself and his descendants a plausible reason to be Parselmouths.

So why is the ritual known, according to Voldemort, as the Parselmouth Curse? There are no downsides to the power to understand and command snakes. But if S or one of their successors calls it a curse, that radically reduces the number of people who might seek to learn and use it.

P.S. One obvious argument for Parseltongue being a language is that being a snake animagus supposedly lets you speak it without being a Parselmouth. However, we don't actually have any evidence for this - Quirrell is a Parselmouth already, so his ability to speak Parseltongue in whatever form is not a test that behaves differently under different circumstances. His statement that a snake animagus is not the same as a Parselmouth only supports this observation.

What kind of impressed me about "The Truth, part 1" was the reveal.

Consider: In most mystery novels, the reveal scene(s) is where the detective explains what the reader has been struggling to figure out since the start of the story. It provides a powerful "ah-ha!" moment if done right.

Here, everything Harry figures out is stuff the reader most likely already knew, thanks to meta-knowledge. We're watching him figure out what we'd been hoping he'd figure out for dozens of chapters. By all rights, it shouldn't provide that ah-ha feeling.

And yet... it does. I think the stream of consciousness really sells it. It helped me feel like I was inside Harry's head, living through that realization.

One of the ongoing patterns in HPMoR is how certain spells require people to believe certain things or to be in certain emotional states. Harry can perform partial transfiguration because he actually believes in timeless physics. Harry can cast Patronus 2.0 because of his beliefs about life and death. Avada Kedavara requires hate (or indifference).

I see no references to the conversation between McGonigal and Quirrell. "Professor Quirrell made a sharp gesture, as though to indicate a concept for which he had no words." McGonigal reacts. That there is a concept that these two characters know of, but have not actually explained to the reader. I expect this to play a part in the grand finale.

Almost everything related to Quirrell is related to death. There are simply too many instances to list exhaustively; this is just things that immediately come to mind. Voldemort was all about death during his reign; "mort" is in his name. He talks about stars dieing on multiple occasions. He brings the dementor to Hogwarts. He brings Harry to Azkaban. Hermione. Unicorns. The actual outcome of the conversation above that I linked to is that McGonigal whispers to Harry, "I had a sister once," and then leads to Harry going on his field trip with Lupin, which is about the Peverell brothers, which is about death. He has made his own wasting away prolonged and visible. Over the last few chapters, he has done certain things that would be counterproductive if his goal was to merely obtain the philosopher's stone.

My final prediction: Everything in the last few chapters which shows him being a sloppy carton villain is a ruse, is being done deliberately to manipulate Harry. Quirrell plays the game One Level Higher Than You. Quirrell's plot is to manipulate Harry into a certain mental state, which is directly related to the gesture he made to McGonigal, which is one of the major unresolved questions.

As to what end, there I am slightly hazy. My roommate believes that Methods is a retelling of The Sword of Good, and that Quirrell is at minimum the antivillian seeking positive utilitarian gains, possibly by vanquishing death. I think that's likely but am not confident enough to bet on it.

While we are at it, where are the Deathly Hollows? Quirrell took the Cloak of Invisibility. I presume that he has the Resurrection Stone if he's plotting something related to death. As far as I know, Dumbledore has the Elder Wand. Hey, didn't Quirrell say that he had a plan to defeat the Headmaster if he showed up?

We have a bunch of Parseltongue statements from earlier in the fic. Who wants to go back and see if any of them were lies?

I cannot be truly killed by any power known to me, and lossing Sstone will not sstop me from returning, nor sspare you or yourss my wrath. Any impetuous act you are contemplating cannot win the game for you, boy.

The last sentence was not said in parseltongue. Could it be that Quirrell used English because it is a lie, and he believes that there is something that Harry could do to win?

The last line of 107 says:

Those of you who have outstanding disputes regarding the Defense Professor's secrets should bet now, or forever hold your peace.

Anybody care to guess what secrets will be revealed in the next chapter?

Realization: when Harry first encountered the dementor and saw his parents' murder, he noted that the neutral patterns of the memory shouldn't have even existed. Maybe that's because it's a false memory? I note this now because it removes constraints from what V might have actually done that day.

Did I understand correctly, that the parchment contained 2 alternate instructions for dealing with the room enchanted by Snape ? One side of the parchment contained a comparatively short puzzle, similar to the canon HP, while the other side contained incredibly long and laborious recipe ? When a child or young student is given 2 alternate version of homework, one short and entertaing, while other a boring and laborious pain in the ass, which one do they normally choose ? Voldermort, however, does not believe in simple solutions, he tends to do overkills all the time. Maybe that was the distinguishing feature, which Harry wondered about ?

"... real-world security systems had the goal of distinguishing authorized from unauthorized personnel, which meant issuing challenges that behaved differently around people who were or weren't supposed to be there."

When Salazar Slytherin invoked the Parselmouth curse upon himself and all his children, his true plan was to ensure his descendants could trust one another's words, whatever plots they wove against outsiders.

• You have two parents, four grandparents, eight grandparents, etc.
• A generation is 20-25 years (depending on how young people have children)
• Salazar Slytherin lived one thousand years ago.

In short, today either every wizard in Britain is a descendant of Salazar Slytherin or none is. It seems awfully convenient for Quirell to suddenly have a foolproof way to make Harry believe certain claims. It seems to me that the whole "snakes can't lie" thing would have been revealed when Quirell was trying to convince Harry he didn't want to kill Bahry in Azkaban. In fact, that would have shortened that particular discussion considerably, in a situation where time was essential.
It has already been established that ventriloquism and silencing charms exist and that Quirell can do silent and wandless spell casting, so the "two plus two" test could easily have been faked.

WMG time:

Quirrell is dying because he's Tranfigured himself. (I don't know why at this point.)

Quirrel seems on the road to get the Philosopher's Stone. It's certainly possible that he will fail or Harry ( / time-turned Cedric Diggory) will manage to swipe it at the last minute. But with around 80k words left to go, there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of story left if Harry gets the stone in the next couple of chapters.

I draw your attention to a few quotes concerning the Philosopher's Stone:

His strongest road to life is the Philosopher’s Stone, which Flamel assures me that not even Voldemort could create on his own; by that road he would rise greater and more terrible than ever before. (Chapter 61)

“It’s not a secret.” Hermione flipped the page, showing Harry the diagrams. “The instructions are right on the next page. It’s just so difficult that only Nicholas Flamel’s done it.” (Chapter 87)

“I was looking to see if there was anything here I could figure out how to do. I thought, maybe the difficult part about making a Philosopher’s Stone was that the alchemical circle had to be super precise, and I could get it right by using a Muggle microscope—” “That’s brilliant, Hermione!” The boy rapidly drew his wand, said “Quietus,” and then continued after the small noises of the rowdier books had died down. “Even if the Philosopher’s Stone is just a myth, the same trick might work for other difficult alchemies—” “Well, it can’t work,” Hermione said. She’d flown across the library to look up the only book on alchemy that wasn’t in the Restricted Section. And then—she remembered the crushing letdown, all the sudden hope dissipating like mist. “Because all alchemical circles have to be drawn ‘to the fineness of a child’s hair’, it isn’t any finer for some alchemies than others. And wizards have Omnioculars, and I haven’t heard of any spells where you use Omnioculars to magnify things and do them exactly. I should’ve realized that!” (Chapter 87)

So we have multiple mentions of the possibility of creating a Philosopher's Stone. We also have Quirrel's promise not to kill anyone within Hogwarts for a week. And Flamel may still be out there, with the knowledge of how he created the Stone in the first place.

All this leads to the possibility that Quirrel gets ahold of the current Philosopher's Stone, and Harry learns enough in seeing the stone in person to be able to recreate it using a combination of magic and technology.

You can't transfigure anything that doesn't exist yet, so just having a Stone doesn't mean an instant singularity. You can't just will a superwizard or an AI into existence. This leaves plenty of space for a war between two sides, both of which have permanent transfiguration at their disposal.

I am confused about how Philosopher's stone could help with reviving Hermione. Does QQ mean to permanently transfigure her dead body into a living Hermione? But then, would it not mean that Harry could do it now, albeit temporarily? And, he wouldn't even need a body. He could then just temporarily transfigure any object into a living Hermione. Also, now that I think of it, he could transfigure himself a Feynman and a couple of Einsteins...

Realization: Not only is it suspicious that Harry finally makes the Quirrell=Voldemort connection almost immediately after Snape hits him with an anti-Confundus spell but the fact that Quirrell hasn't obliviated Harry yet is positive proof that he intends Harry to know that Q=V for the time being. For what purpose?

Given EY's noticeable penchant for echoing canon, I have a general guess as to what Quirrell's plans for the schoolmaster are...

Harry's commitment is quite weaksauce, and it was surprising that he wasn't called on it:

I sshall help you obtain the Sstone (...) sshall not do anything I think will annoy you to no good end. Sshall call no help if I expect them to be killed by you or for hosstagess to die.

So he's free to call help as long as he expects to win the ensuing encounter. After which he could hand the Stone to a subdued Quirrell for just a moment, technically fulfilling that clause as well. Also, the "to no good end" qualifier? "Winning against Voldemort" certainly would count as a good end, cancelling that part as well.

Prediction: the philosopher's stone is the resurrection stone. QQ said Flamel wasn't the true creator, and two stones with resurrectiony powers runs afoul of Occam. V can still do his best to make a true Hermione, but it'll really be his model of her.

What could Harry use to get out of this pickle?

• His mind, obviously, especially since negotiation is a possible action.
• Wandless magic? (Presumably learned from Bacon's diary.) Probably not anything requiring lots of magical power, but recall from the Azkaban arc that he could dispel his own magic almost effortlessly even back then. Now that he finds second-year spells easy, he just might be able to wandlessly manage that or other spells requiring very little magical power, such as Somnium, Innervate, and the TPC. Or possibly very small transfigurations (like a millionth of a gram of botulinium toxin), since he's had so much practice with that branch of magic.
• Anything he's already transfigured and is carrying with him. Sulphuric acid chips?
• His control over Dementors, which he doesn't need spells for.
• Ritual magic? He may not need a wand to perform a ritual.
• Possibly a backup wand / Time-Turner / other useful device?
• Mastery over his Cloak? He didn't give it to anyone as a possession.
• Mastery / ownership of other objects? Perhaps the Philosopher's Stone also has an "owner" property?
• Summoning a phoenix? Even if he can't get a phoenix of his own, he may be able to call one to aid him in a selfless act of heroism.
• Plans (for help or otherwise) already set in motion? Someone might look for him at the Quidditch game (probably as part of the debate about the Snitch), realize that he's not there despite setting up the banner and being interested in the outcome of the debate, and go look for him. Or maybe he's hidden someone in his pouch, or told Cedric about what he's doing. Or due to the Bayesian Conspiracy, Draco will realize that he's been Obliviated and help Harry.

I've probably missed something, so feel free to add more in the replies.

[META]

EDIT: based on Alsadius' comment about thread creation for MOR chapters, let's also use this thread for chapter 107 (and future chapters until this nears 500 comments) unless someone objects to doing so.

I guess I kind of object? Not out of any principle or logic, but I just feel like this thread has kind of been stagnating and not really encouraging new top-level replies because they're crushed under all the highly upvoted posts and don't get as much attention.

Especially since everything is changing so fast in this final arc, I like the idea of having a distinct thread for each chapter, so all replies have the same context, instead of as in a mixed thread like this, where a post based on the latest information may be drowned out by now-irrelevant theories from earlier chapters, and it is not clear to the reader which posts are implicitly based on which chapters unless they have a table of chapter update times and check the date of posts.

ETA: I had just missed the posting of this thread when I wrote the following.

If no one objects to my objection, I'll go ahead and post a thread for chapter 109 and chapter 109 alone, once it is released. Or, if anyone feels similarly, I or someone else could post a thread for the just-released chapter 108, which isn't yet explicitly included in this current thread.

Actually, why not have a poll?

[pollid:824]

ETA: Apparently the bold markdown syntax doesn't work with poll options. My bad.

Adding to my previous prediction comment:

Predictions:

Harry attempted to obtain a useful object (such as Snape’s wand) when he knocked Snape over in Chapter 106. 75%

The ritual which promises to summon Death itself (Chapter 74) summons a Dementor. 80%

The lost counterspell to dismiss whatever is summoned by the ritual involving "a rope which has hanged a man and a sword which has slain a woman" (Chapter 74) is the True Patronus Charm. 80%

Harry’s mental development has been significantly influenced by his body’s descent from the Potter line. This includes genetic effects, heritable magical effects, and interactions between such effects and his environment, but excludes purely environmental effects of being raised in the Verres-Evans household. 70% (In other words, suppose the following counterfactual: Voldemort came to believe that the prophecy referred to a different wizarding infant child who had been living in a similar environment up to that point (canonically Neville also fits the prophecy), attacked that household in order to perform whatever mind-altering magic he actually performed on the infant Harry on the other infant child, and leaves all blood relatives who would otherwise care for the child dead / insane / otherwise unable to do so. Suppose further that Dumbledore asks Petunia to adopt this infant, so this hypothetical other child is also raised in the Verres-Evans household. My prediction is that there would be some significant difference between this hypothetical child’s mental development and Harry’s mental development.)

The procedure Voldemort describes that "destroyed all but a remnant of Harry Potter" (Chapter 105) involved a Horcrux. 75%

Quirrell was enhancing Sprout’s and Susan’s magic in the battle in Chapter 104. 70%

Snape is still capable of somehow intervening in Voldemort’s plot, despite the bodily control spell Voldemort used. 50%

Speculations:

Snape may be an Occlumens. In Chapter 27, Harry recalls that "the book said that a successful Legilimens was extremely rare, rarer than a perfect Occlumens, because almost no one had enough mental discipline." Since Snape clearly has the discipline, the awareness of mind magics, the (at least outward) ability to pretend, and motivation to learn Occlumency (it would be extremely useful to someone in his position), he may well have become an Occlumens at some point.

Observations:

Quirrell is messing with Time. Recall Harry’s experiment with Time in Chapter 17, where he precommitted to an algorithm for recovering prime factors of a large number that relies on the stable-loop property of Time-Turners, but got the unexpected result of "DO NOT MESS WITH TIME" instead. His precommitment had failed to rule out the logical universe where he got "DO NOT MESS WITH TIME".

Quirrell is clearly relying on the stable-loop property of Time-Turners when he says "Oh, we have time. There would be a great uproar if we were discovered here, guarded by an Inferius. You did not act like you had heard of such an uproar at your Quidditch match, before you arrived in this time and spoke to Snape as you did." (Chapter 107) Leaning on this property to get what you want seems to be the definition of messing with Time, and also something we can expect Quirrell to be inclined towards based on his similarities with Harry.

Now suppose that Quirrell made the following precommitment in order to further lean on this property: "If my plot involving the boy known as Harry Potter succeeds in its objectives by 10:30 PM, I will then arrange for the note asking him to come to the forbidden corridor to be sent to him at such a time that he must use five spins of his Time-Turner. Otherwise, I will send no note to him." This precommitment appears to guarantee his success if Harry shows up, and in particular appears to rule out universes where Harry shows up and defeats Quirrell. But it doesn’t rule out logical universes where Harry shows up and defeats Quirrell because it doesn’t rule out logical universes that can be described by "Harry shows up, defeats Quirrell, and then arranges to have such a note sent to his past self for the purposes of paradox avoidance." So Quirrell just might wind up with a much nastier message not to mess with Time.

Did Harry ever give serious thought to whether his strong desire to never be responsible for a death actually makes sense when he's going to have to deal with violent situations?

If Mr. Hat and Cloak turns out not to be Flamel, then Flamel is..... Hagrid? Filtch? Dumbledore? Ron? Unseen? If Hagrid had appeared in any scene not required by canon symmetry or Quirell's fake Parseltongue explanation then I would suspect him more. Dumbledore's fear of being a dark wizard would make sense, but he seems too young and had a family.

I just had another thought in relation to Harry's second transfigured object. I had thought as Quirrel did that Harry's second transfigured object was Hermione's body. (Though Harry successfullly fooled Quirrel into thinking the second object was the steel ring. It wan't, but we know he has something because of the mention of 'the other one' in Chapter 104.)

But just after Hermione's body dissappeared, they throroughly searched Harry's person and stuff for transfigured objects and finite incantatem-ed the lot. Perhaps Harry's second transfigured object is not Hermione, but something aquired more recently? I'm thinking of Cedric. Can a living body be transformed into something solid like a rock without deleterious effects?

Ch 107

the standard counter-Charm for a boggart is, of course, Fiendfyre

Why not Avada Kedavra, which is the usual countercharm for anything with a brain?

Because, if you get within sight to aim, it will scare you and you will flinch away.

Beneath the trapdoor was a gigantic plant, something like an enormous dieffenbachia with wide leaves emerging from the central stem like a spiral staircase, but darker-colored than a normal dieffenbacchia, and with tendril-like vines emerging from the central stem and hanging down.

Misspelling of dieffenbachia.

There are two prophecies at work here that I don't understand, which even now have to be vital to the ending

• HE IS HERE. THE ONE WHO WILL TEAR APART THE VERY STARS IN HEAVEN. HE IS HERE. HE IS THE END OF THE WORLD.
• Thrayen beyn Peverlas soona ahnd thrih heera toal thissoom Dath bey yewoonen

I really don't get why Quirrel is doing this knowing the prophecy of the stars.

I dislike this - the existing thread is only at 140 comments, and should be used for at least today's chapter. There's probably going to be another posted Wednesday, at this rate.

Given that the only thing Harry seemed to manage to keep a secret from Quirrel is what he really transfigured Hermione into, I suspect Harry might have to win by using the trick he did with the Troll, but with Hermione instead of a rock.

I feel the need to point out that the first three rooms can be beaten very quickly in the manner that a first-year might (assuming that flying over the chessboard is ok) and yet Quirrel only slows down for the room which takes an hour. It would only have taken a moment to summon the snitch-key, and since they don't have a perfect read on Snape, if the potions room might have been trappeded, then so might have the other rooms.

Does anyone else get the feeling that these "payoff" chapters are less exciting to read than the "mystery" chapters were? This isn't meant to take a stab at Eliezer, I've noticed that in many written works. Ra and Fine Structure were also more fun when they were mysterious. Worm and Pact somehow manage to avoid that, maybe because they don't rely so heavily on mystery, and have fight scenes and character drama to compensate.

"That is your condition for helping me to obtain the Stone?" said Professor Quirrell. Harry nodded, unable to form words.

Does that mean that Voldemort is freed from his previous offer to resurrect Hermione? Voldemort specifically says "That is your condition" which Harry agreed to. If so, Harry is going to be kicking himself later.

So, Voldemort is explained, and in a way I find persuasive. I wasn't sure it was possible.

So. you know how Dumbledore thinks that Fred and George are kinda/sorta the heirs of Gryffindor?

I give them 90% odds of at least showing up.

Hat and Cloak is Salazar's creature. He (it?) was put in the Chamber to be a counter to the second thing Merlin did when he laid the Interdict in force, namely biasing holders of time-displaced information toward simpler (non-catastrophic) loops - my best guess is, by creating random change in subject's mind which randoms into thoughts leading to paradox-free behavior; from this side of the 4th wall it can look like 'being stupid for the sake of plot'. (to clarify: the random thought is an extra degree of freedom by which the situation can be paradox-free without big complicated catastrophic coincidences)

HC's original job is to bring/send back future information and limit exposure of Heir. Kinda like what Millicent does, or Snape did with Rianne - you know, it's a difficult concept, needs good examples by the time it is explained. (for the record, this clicked for me during the 'Groundhog Day attack' which originally came before the 'Interlude with the Confessor' chapter - to me that chapter was a confirmation not a clue.)

Also: SNAPE KILLED DUMBLEDORE!!

The 'Harry = Tom Riddle' thing doesn't sit right with me. The whole point of teaching Harry, the point of going this slow now, is to get Harry to embrace his dark side for a successful takeover - and look, he already thinks of it as part of him, not a separate side. I predict the sense of doom will decrease, Harry will interpret it as 'Quirrell losing strength' and 'now is the time to be clever' when in reality it will be - well, either it's him getting closer to being taken over by his dark side, or it is directly faked by Q to be a false encouragement towards same.

If I were Snape, I would use a gas. Something which becomes hazardous after a certain time. Or merely change the nitrogen/oxygen balance after a certain time.

The gun jabbed slightly forward, causing prickles of sweat to appear on Harry's forehead. "Drop your wand. Now."

Harry dropped it.

That's a mistake. The response should be to transfigure air into a very thin net of carbon nanotube that's invisible and that can be between him an Quirrell's gun. Transfiguration doesn't seem to need speaking if I remember right.

First of all guys i'm french so please forgive my language mistakes I think we have to keep some spaces without rationality, Harry Potter is a novel created with a universe which is out of all our reality concepts, and this is made on purpose. Do we need to make it rational? This a great fanfiction but i think that if we want to find the rational, we have to make a difference between what is rationnal and what was made to not be rationnal :) to be understood clearly, I'm not blaming the fanfiction by itself, I'm just suprised that we try to make it rational, it's a novel I don't thinks it has to be coherent at each page, each line. Just to finish :When you're looking for the coherence or th rational You'll find it Just for clarify, there's no personal attacks in there, this is just for bring out a behavior We all have