LessWrong 2.0 Reader

Thanks for pointing that out.

Perhaps the fine-tuning process teaches it to treat the hypothetical as a rephrasing?

It's likely difficult, but it might be possible to test this hypothesis by comparing the activations (or similar interpretability technique) of the object-level response and the hypothetical response of the fine-tuned model.

What do you mean by "model-based"?

How does this model handle horizontal gene transfer? And what about asexually reproducing species? In those cases, the dividing lines between species are less sharply defined.

I'm curious to look at it but I only see one comment total for that user, and googling the username didn't bring up anything helpful either.

These models were fine-tuned from base models. Base models are trained with a vast amount of data to infer a context from the early parts of a document and then extrapolate that to predict later tokens, across a vast amount of text from the Internet and books, including actions and dialog from fictional characters. I.e they have been trained to observe and then simulate a wide variety of behavior, both of real humans, groups of real humans like the editors of a wikipedia page, and fictional characters. A couple of percent of people are psychopaths, so likely ~2% of this training data was written by psychopaths. Villains in fiction often also display psychopath-like traits. It's thus completely unsurprising that a base model can portray a wide range of ethical stances, including psychopathic ones. Instruct training does not remove behaviors from models (so far we no know effective way to do that), it just strengthens some (making them occur more by default) and weakens others (making them happen less often by default) — however, there is a well-known theoretical result that any behavior the model is capable of, even if (now) rare, can be prompted to occur at arbitrarily levels with a suitably long prompt, and all that instruct-training or fine tuning can do is reduce the initial probability and lengthen the prompt required. So it absolutely will be possible to prompt an instruct-trained model to portray psychopathic behavior. Apparently the prompt required isn't even long: all you have to do is tell it that it's a hedge fund manager and not to break character.

Nothing in this set of results is very surprising to me. LLMs are can simulate pretty-much any persona 
you ask them to. The hard part of alignment is not prompting them to be good, or bad — it's getting them to stay that way (or detecting that they have not) after they've been fed another 100,000 tokens of context that may push them into simulating some other persona.
 

I give a counterargument to this in the typo-riddled, poorly-written Tweet here. Sadly I won't have a chance to write up thoughts here more cleanly for a few days.

ETA: Briefly, the key points are:

1. Honesty issues for introspection aren't obviously much worse than they are for simple probing. (But fair if you're already not excited about simple probing.)
2. When you can ask models arbitrary questions about their cognition, I think it's probably quite difficult for a model to tell on which inputs it can get away with lying.

In that case, the rephrasing of the question would be something like "What is the third letter of the answer to the question <input>?"

That's my current skeptical interpretation of how the fine-tuned models parse such questions, yes. They didn't learn to introspect; they learned to, when prompted with queries of the form "If you got asked this question, what would be the third letter of your response?", to just interpret them as "what is the third letter of the answer to this question?". (Under this interpretation, the models' non-fine-tuned behavior isn't to ignore the hypothetical, but to instead attempt to engage with it in some way that dramatically fails, thereby leading to non-fine-tuned models appearing to be "worse at introspection".)

In this case, it's natural that a model M1 is much more likely to answer correctly about its own behavior than if you asked some M2 about M1, since the problem just reduces to "is M1 more likely to respond the same way it responded before if you slightly rephrase the question?".

Note that I'm not sure that this is what's happening. But (1) I'm a-priori skeptical of LLMs having these introspective abilities, and (2) the procedure for teaching LLMs introspection secretly teaching them to just ignore hypotheticals seems like exactly the sort of goal-misgeneralization SGD-shortcut that tends to happen. Or would this strategy actually do worse on your dataset?

It seems obvious that a model would better predict its own outputs than a separate model would.

As Owain mentioned, that is not really what we find in models that we have not finetuned. Below, we show how well the hypothetical self-predictions of an "out-of-the-box" (ie. non-finetuned) model match its own ground-truth behavior compared to that of another model. With the exception of Llama, there doesn't seem to be a strong correlation between self-predictions and those tracking the behavior of the model over that of others. This is despite there being a lot of variation in ground-truth behavior across models. 

Our original thinking was along the lines of: we're interested in introspection. But introspection about inner states is hard to evaluate, since interpretability is not good enough to determine whether a statement of an LLM about its inner states is true. Additionally, it could be the case that a model can introspect on its inner states, but no language exists by which it can be expressed (possibly since its different from human inner states). So we have to ground it in something measurable. And the measurable thing we ground it in is knowledge of ones own behavior. In order to predict behavior, the model has to have access to some information about itself, even if it can't necessarily express it. But we can measure whether it can employ ti for some other goal (in this case, self-prediction). 

It's true that the particular questions that we ask it could be answered with a pretty narrow form of self-knowledge (namely, internal self-simulation + reasoning about the result). But consider that this could be a valid way of learning something new about yourself: similarly, you could learn something about your values by conducting a thought experiment (for example, you might learn something about your moral framework by imagining what you would do if you were transported into the trolley problem). 

What's your model of "rephrasing the question"? Note that we never ask the "If you got this input, what would you have done?", but always for some property of its behavior ("If you got this input, what is the third letter of your response?") In that case, the rephrasing of the question would be something like "What is the third letter of the answer to the question <input>?"

I have the sense that being able to answer this question consistently correctly wrt to the models ground truth behavior on questions where that ground truth behavior differs from that of other models suggests (minimal) introspection